[Not a bug] Why does submerged, blessed, etc, vanish after spell cast?

Bug Reports
1

Platform, device version and operating system: playstation but I assume it’s on all platforms

What you were expecting to happen, and what actually happened:
I expected that submerged and other status effects, like blessed, would remain on a troop until they wear off at the start of a turn or are removed by dispelling. Instead, whenever a troop casts their spell, most positive status effects are removed. It definitely happens to bless, submerged and enchant, though enchant is SUPPOSED to be removed on spell cast.
I’ve checked and barrier definitely ISN’T removed on spell cast, so I don’t understand why some status effects are removed without warning and others are not.

How often does this happen? When did it begin happening?
It happens every time a troop has those status effects and casts a spell. It’s been that way for the last couple of updates I think, but it definitely didn’t used to happen that way.

Steps to make it happen again
Use a troop that self-inflicts submerged or blessed, via a trait, then cast their spell. Or use any troop that becomes granted these status effects and cast their spell.

I’ve listed this as a bug report because I checked the support page and enchant specifically states “enchanted troops gain an extra 2 mana until per turn their spell is cast” (typo is theirs, guessing it should be per turn until, but nevermind). The other status effects don’t state anything about “until their spell is cast” so either the support page is wrong and needs updating or the game is bugged and needs fixing.

The issue is bad enough in general, but there’s a lot of instances in the game of ways to start matches with positive status effects like blessed and enchant, many of which you have to pay for (with in-game currency or real world currency), meaning you’re potentially paying for a status effect that doesn’t last as long as it should.
Say, for example, you buy a potion of blessing in an event, and use an empowered troop. You start the match and immediately use the empowered troop’s spell, removing the blessed effect from the potion you paid for. Even if their spell triggers an extra turn, meaning you’re still technically on your first turn of the game, your troop no longer has the status effect you paid for. That seems wrong.
I know status effects wear off after a while but I don’t think casting a spell should remove any of them (unless the spell has an effect to do so) OTHER than enchant, because that’s kind of the point of enchant.

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Bless was always intended to work like that since being introduced about five years ago (pops up rather easily if you search new status effect within Official News category). The same should hold true for submerge but I’m too lazy to look while on phone.

The thing with support articles regarding this is called - incomplete.
And customer experience team plain and simple does not care, they don’t give the slightest fudge about completeness or updating articles to reflect changes in game.
Unfortunately, one always needs veteran players with real knowledge to fill in any blanks.

6 Likes
3

Yep, you’re right. It’s there for submerged too: T.M.N.D.T - PC/Mobile Event - #11 by Ozball

New Status Effect: Submerged
Avoid all damage effects targeting the whole team. The effect wears off if the troop takes an action.

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Why is this in bug reports?

Status effects are not and never have been something anyone has to pay for.

You should really familiarize yourself with the game before making bug reports on mechanics that are working as they should rather than how you want them to.

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The Trinket mechanism in Underspire is pretty much paid status effects.

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I said you dont “have to” pay for anything and trinkets do not cover any of the status effects listed here.

OP is referring to delve potions from shops, which again, you dont “have to” pay for them.

Edit: not even delve potions because submerge isnt a delve potion so its a complain on the basic mechanics of these specific effects

1 Like
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You should really familiarize yourself with the game before making bug reports on mechanics that are working as they should rather than how you want them to.

That seems harsh and judgemental considering the OP wrote this:

I’ve listed this as a bug report because I checked the support page and enchant specifically states “enchanted troops gain an extra 2 mana until per turn their spell is cast” (typo is theirs, guessing it should be per turn until, but nevermind). The other status effects don’t state anything about “until their spell is cast” so either the support page is wrong and needs updating or the game is bugged and needs fixing.

1 Like
8

Like pretty much all games some things aren’t explicitly spelled out in long drawn out detail. In fact if it were you would still have the same issue of people skimming over information because its too long.

Reflect doesnt say lethal damage can be reflected either.

Helpdesk doesnt say any and every detail of tje game

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Just going to document this for the OP:

Status Effects that last “until used”:

  • Enrage (1.5x damage next Skull match + bypasses passive traits like Holy Armor)
  • Reflect (returns 50% of next incoming damage back to the originating troop)
  • Barrier (negates 1 hit of any magnitude, including damage from Poison/Burn/Bleed, Reflected damage, and Devour)
    (Barrier and Reflect can stack, in which case the Barrier gets used first)

Status Effects that expire upon spellcast:

  • Enchant (unless the spell re-enchants the troop, e.g. Arcanus/Baihu and certain weapon upgrades)
  • Blessed – also includes protection from Mana Drain/Steal which would otherwise interfere with spellcasting
  • Submerged – if it’s the first Troop, matching Skulls will also remove the effect

The explanation is … basic game design decisions. The status effect needs to be useful for its stated purpose, but also needs to be something you can play around and counter (try running a status team against Vanya Soulmourn’s faction sometime).

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You don’t “have to” do anything. My point was that you CAN buy status effects and if you do, what you get doesn’t seem very worthwhile.
And you agree that it’s an option, so I don’t understand your objection to my question.

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Thank you for the list. I just don’t know why some status effects end on taking an action and others don’t. There’s nothing in the game to explain it (either from a lore or a gameplay point of view), the support content isn’t helpful (and actually implies something very different) and the only way to know is to find out for yourself by experimentation or speak to others on the forum and other sites.
I understand status effects like barrier, enraged and reflect being single use and consumed on use, but why aren’t the others treated like negative status effects, I wonder? They could wear off at the start of your turn, with a fixed or increasing chance. It just seems odd that it works the way it does.
And that’d be fine if it was just a weird design decision, but like my post pointed out, if you pay for a potion to give your troops blessed, wouldn’t you expect that to last at least a couple of turns? So maybe this isn’t a bug. So much as a question about the design choice and the interaction between a paid element and the way something works.

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I have wondered if blessed is simply too powerful if it doesn’t end on casting. I think of it like old D&D where the character is invisible until she attacks and then suddenly everyone can see her. It’d be nice for an explanation from designers.

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How would bless or submerge end if it didnt end on action? It doesn’t end when its “activated”. Treat them as negative effects? What?

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The blunt answer, of course, is that it’s a more or less arbitrary decision by the designers.

Maybe because that would make their duration unpredictable/unreliable?

1 Like
23

Do you realize you’re contracting yourself?

24

No, if it worked like negative status effects, it would be guaranteed for the first turn, then have a chance to be removed at the start of every turn you take after that. So, if you buy a potion then the effect given would definitely last through your first turn and the enemy’s first turn. It would then get a chance to be removed on your second turn, though usually it wouldn’t, in theory.

Most status effects in the game work by being removed at the start of a turn. There’s 3 that work different and have a good lore and gameplay reason for being single use effects that end when they are used. There’s one, enchant, that has a good lore and gameplay reason for being a permanent effect that lasts until the troop casts a spell, but doesn’t end if the troop takes another action, like performing a skull attack. The last 2 status effects have no good lore and gameplay reason for being the way they are, in that they end on any action taken by the troop and don’t behave like all the others.
It seems like they should behave more like some of the other effects. Now, you could reason that they should behave like the negative status effects and have a chance to end at the beginning of a turn, or you could reason that they should behave like the majority of positive status effects and be single use (blessed would end when it blocks a single negative effect and submerged would end when it blocks a single damage incident, I guess), or you could reason that they should behave like enchant and end under the same conditions, but having them behave differently to all the others seems the least reasonable option. That’s my point.
Now, given that blessed is supposed to be a direct opposite of cursed, and cursed works by having a chance to be removed at the start of your turn, it seems likely that blessed would work the same. They both prevent opposite status effects (cursed prevents positive, blessed prevents negative), they each cancel each other out, and yet they end under very different circumstances. It seems odd.
As far as submerged, I’d actually expect it to behave like barrier and block one instance of damage, but it’s more situational so it makes sense to be more powerful and block multiple instances. Given that, why not treat it like the majority of status effects and have it end at the start of your turn?

Yeah, that seems to be the gist of it. It’d be nice to get a better answer than that, but I guess that’ll be what we end up with.

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Currently, only the 1st troop has a chance to lose bless at 1st turn if you accidentally get a skull cascade from explosion. All 3 other troops are guaranteed to have bless for several turns until you cast or get dispelled.
If bless was treated like a negative effect, all 4 troops would have an increasing chance to lose bless every single turn. What you are asking would make bless potion worse than it is now.

3 Likes
26

That would depend on the team. There are teams that can cast all four troop spells in the first turn, and before the enemy takes any action you lose all the benefits of that potion. Sure, there are other teams that won’t cast for several turns and might be better off, but a benefit that works best for a team which doesn’t act seems like a bad idea.
If you’re making a good team, I’d assume you hope to be casting spells in the first turn, even if it requires a bit of luck and some 4+ matches on the board. In that case, the effect ending on cast is worse that having a chance to end at the start of your turn.

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Please share the teams as well as the events they are used in

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Slot 1: looping troop (chalcedony, beetrix, seekra, or others)
Slot 2: empowered converter (Empowered Troops Converter List)
Slot 3: other empowered troop (leprechaun or sister superior, etc.)
Slot 4: hero with weapon that uses mana colour created by looping troop and/or empowered converter.
Used in… Almost every event, especially guild war defence.

Examples of more specific teams.
Rope dart, forest guardian, quilin, moon rabbit. Reddit - Dive into anything

One I use often?
Norbert’s turnip, flaming oni, gobtruffle, stringfidler. Used in most event type, as long as restrictions allow. Needs a good board, but can easily cast all four spells MULTIPLE times within the first turn if it gets any troop’s mana filled from a four-gem-match or two.

Seriously, just pick four empowered troops and make them a team and it’d win battles against the first few enemy teams in most events. Sure, the potion isn’t needed in those first battles, but if your point is that you can’t make a team for the event that casts spells in the first turn, you absolutely can. And people do so, all the time.