New Faction - Amanithrax

The overall package still looks like it was calculated by someone not familiar with Delve rewards.

We missed out on one chest at x4 multiplier, as well as a x0.25 reward on all obtained chests, resulting in roughly another chest at x2 multiplier. Receiving gold from a single x4 chest grants more than 30k gold at max quality, so 250 gold for each clear feels kind of… low. Same applies to glory and souls.

Would you be interested in a more detailed analysis why the compensation is much lower than most players actively playing the Delve missed out on? It looks like none of the many reward multipliers were taken into account.

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Yes, Xolid listed it all ( to be precise are 0,5 leg and 0,25 mythic each run) ingots.

But let’s take shards, i had 30k at start, spent 10k on new troops and should have got 32/33k at the end of the event (in fact never got that many points cuz even doing full runs often was skipping cedric at lvl 400+).

Right now included the mail am at 28,890.

Then 400 glory? 2k souls?

As i said thx and i dont even really need the stuff, but yeah, defo whoever came out with those numbers never played the game.

All fine tho, dont even really need anything and defo am not asking for more compensation or anything, just dont come here talking like “you lot” gave us only god know what.

I calculated the rewards per attempts they thought i took. It works out the same as above. So the reward doesn’t take into account if you rushed through the shortest path possible for a low score, or spent time building up your chest by doing every room as I did. What a shame.

Is anybody really surprised that the compensation is so low. We have seen this time and again

My rewards and score.


I know it will be low, but not this low.

Agree. Part of the reason I sink so many gems into the faction event is to gather all these resources. I feel pretty ripped off right now. I’m not a long time player so I don’t have endless stacks of currency like many others who have been around for a long time.

I’ll start with the basics and move onto some estimates…

A single chest level alone is baseline worth something.
Possible drops are:
3, 4, 5, or 6 shards
1 legendary ingot
1 mythic ingot
2k or 4k gold
200 souls
20 glory
before being modified by your reward modifier, then rounded
before any hoard quality multipliers are applied
With 3.5 modifier (a very lowball estimate given full clears of this run from what I understand) and max hoard quality, you’d be looking, per run, missing:
11-21 shards OR 8 legendary ingots OR 8 mythic ingots OR 28-56k gold OR 1400 souls OR 140 glory

There was the off chance of getting a level 10 chest with the glitch in effect, in which case you would have lost nothing to a missing chest level, but this was, to my understanding, exceedingly uncommon.

With a lower modifier, your lost drops for a single chest level would be much less. But even straight shot runs in this faction should have yielded about a 3.0 modifier.

I don’t know the exact ratio between the drops within chests, I just know what the possible drops are. Shards are by far the most common, then ingots, and incidentals are pretty rare. So it would be pretty difficult to calculate if what you got was “fair”… unless, of course, you can work out any estimate of drop ratios where you got less of everything from the “compensation” than you would have just gotten from the resulting chest.

The lost 0.25 modifier is trickier, since the most common drops have specific break points to get one more. If you were consistently above 3.5 when the run finished, the modifier difference would have equated to about a <7% difference than having the extra 0.25 modifier, and no difference on ingots. But if you had below 3.5 with the glitch and the 0.25 would have brought you above, your average ingots were reduced by 25% (you would have gotten 8 per drop every time one dropped but you got 6 instead). For straight shot runs, your ingot amounts were probably the same regardless of this modifier being present or not, but your other loot difference would have been more pronounced, depending on just how low your modifier was.

But lets, for a moment, look at what that hypothetical model of a single lost drop for a 3.5 modifier (which in an of itself is a lowball) chest would look like, attributing the compensation to what it would relate to on the table and parse out percentages, not even looking at modifier loss:
62.5% of 11-21 shards attributed to 10 shard compensation per run
3.57% of 140 glory attributed to 5 glory compensation per run
6.25% of 8 legendary ingots attributed to 0.5 legendary ingot compensation per run
3.125% of 8 mythic ingots attributed to 0.25 mythic ingot compensation per run
0.595% of 28k-56k gold attributed to 250 gold compensation per run
1.786% of 1400 souls attributed to 25 souls compensation per run

So, even though this is hypothetical, it shows that we can directly attribute a tangible value of what could have been lost at (again, lowball) 3.5 modifier from a single drop per run, and shows that these all add up to only 77.3% of what was mailed out. And thats before we get to the missing 0.25 modifier. If we work that in, the total value of compensation mailed, assuming the drop ratios of the mailed compensation do indeed follow those of delve chests, would be about 72% of the amount missed from those that did consistent full clears (with a lowball 3.5 modifier estimate). Assuming no ingot drop break points were crossed, or it gets much worse (I don’t think they were).

Basically, it looks like they assumed kind of a slightly above average not assuming full clears (and possibly not even max hoard quality). While this might be “fair” for the “average” person, its an interesting move. From the relative “value” of each of the resources that can be given by delves in the game economy as a whole, I probably would have gone with the highest estimate and risked overcompensating people (with resources that mostly hit their value plateaus at a very low amount, larger amounts of “extras” wouldn’t significantly functionally alter any measure of “progress”) rather than have people feel slighted a second time.

Note that I didn’t participate in the event, so I’m not personally getting anything from this, nor would I benefit if the compensation were increased. I’m not generally even in favor for advocating “compensation” or anything of the like for “inconveniences”, but I don’t think this is what “as generous as possible” should look like given that it was a developer side mistake in the first place and people did spend their gems (and quite a lot of time) to participate.

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Well that’s depressing.

For new faction events I buy Tier VI and try to clear all rooms (but skip some after level 300).
IMHO, the last weekend bug affected gold rewards the most, but other than that it wasn’t all that bad.

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So I, uh… decided to run over your numbers assuming a Hoard Quality of 1, and then assuming ingot drop break points WERE crossed (so a lower lowball estimate of 6 potential Legendary/Mythic ingots rather than 8 – that’s what you meant, right?).

For Quality, I doubled the percentages attributed to Glory, Souls and Ingots, and quadrupled the percentage for Gold (Quality 10 gives x2 and x4 to these, respectively; dividing the estimate by 2 and 4 multiplies the percentage by the same).

For Ingots, I obviously just recalculated assuming 6 instead of 8 and replaced those percentages, doubling for Hoard Quality.

That came out to the mailed rewards being 94.3% of the lowball estimate, and then ~100.6%, after the ingots, not taking into account the +0.25 to multiplier.

While fishing-for-numbers-that-add-up-to-100%-and-then-deciding-that’s-the-correct-answer is methodologically flawed, the main ways I can see it being drastically misguided would be if the possible rewards were valued differently, and were compensated disproportionately to their normal drop rates – e.g. if, hypothetically, Glory was considered to be the most valuable, and normally only drops 10% of the time, but we were given 20% as Glory. So, possible.

IF these are anywhere close to the assumptions made for mailing out compensation, it would make

look a little bit like

I.e. Not technically wrong, just needing a little more context :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:.

Realistically, it seems more like, “the least generous we could possibly be, while still drawing from legitimate potential values [no full clears, lowest Hoard Quality] so as not to overcompensate newbies[/anyone?] or upset our publishers”. :man_shrugging:

Having said all of that…

  • Losing out on ~25+% of what would have been earned from the Boss Room (not taking into account extra time/Gems to finish the event, though) isn’t thaaat much in the scale of “total rewards earned from the event”, given that x0.25 (boss multiplier) is 6.25% of x4 (non-lowball multiplier estimate), and 1 Chest Level is probably ~1/6-7 of the average expected Chest from the Faction (i.e., ~4% of total Chest rewards) (I take it back, that adds up).

  • An easy way to ensure varying Hoard Quality didn’t affect compensation would be to give it all in the form of Chaos Shards – a solution that may(?) have left many Delve regulars unhappy (as stated earlier in the thread – although I’m guessing Quality 1 rewards weren’t what they had in mind) (depending on the resultant calculations, as well).

Nonetheless, yeah, below the lowball estimate isn’t exactly what comes to mind when “as generous as possible” is said. :man_shrugging:


Disclosure: I also didn’t participate in the event, beyond level 20-30.


Wording seems inverted? :stuck_out_tongue::man_shrugging:

E.g. “What was mailed out adds up to only 77.3% of these [tangible values of what could have been lost at the lowball 3.5 multiplier estimate]”

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The only thing generous about this compensation is that what i didn’t get compensated for was handed out to people who didn’t earn it (my alt included). I rushed through the floors on my alt, and got more than i deserved. Played almost every room in all 50 floors with my main, plus a bunch extra, and got way less than i would have.

Aside from the topic of compensation, has anyone done the math on how Amanithrax does as a farming faction?

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You’re welcome to keep debating this issue, but I wanted to clarify further on generous as possible.

We aren’t always given free reign with these things, and did our best to mail out a compensation that included as much as we were able to cover. @Mithran had a great post on this. For end gamers, it may seem like it’s come out a little lower, but for the average player, we have actually sent out more rewards than they were likely to get. This was the best middle ground that we could come too.

“The average player” is really mopping up lately. AB’s tuned for that player, the weekly glitch is tuned for them, the compensation’s tuned for them…

I wish I was just some average player these days. And I’d hate to be one of those “weird” guys that spends a lot of gems and gets compensation based on players who didn’t.

But I also know like 505 nobody’s going to change their behavior haha.

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All this time spent complaining could be better spent earning loot.

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You go first, I like the rewards from this game mode better

I made it to 2500, and I don’t have time for full clearing a delve. Maybe I got short changed some in the dev gift, but it’s not enough for me to care. It’s chasing pennies.

I’d rather see it as chasing honest communication. When getting told “what we sent as compensation ends up being more than what you would have earned if there’d been no bug” I sort of expect to receive more than a small fraction of what I lost. I especially resent getting told repeatedly the compensation was “generous”, it just happened to end up getting sent to the “average” player (that just took a peek at the event) instead of the end gamers (that played the event for 10+ hours).

For the record, knowing the score and the delve level reached, it is trivial to figure out quite accurately how much each player would have been owed. And it would have been trivial to plug this into the compensation mechanism. The only reasonable explanation I can come up with for them not doing so is that the overall “average” compensation is very much lower than the “fair” compensation we had been promised. I’d be happy to talk numbers with whoever is responsible for this, I’m damn sure that topic is going to get avoided like the plague though.

I sure miss Sirrian, it’s truly amazing how much one person can contribute to the success of a franchise.

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