Nerf Dragon's Eye already! (or alternatively, buff all other transform troops)

:man_shrugging: From today/yesterday (@Kafka).

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Too bad they didn’t take their time before the first change. As soon as I saw the patch notes I knew it was going to be bad for PvP and GW. But the weapon was making the Delves too easy. So at least they fixed that.

They could easily just undo the changes they made to DE and there wouldn’t be an issue anymore in PvP or GW. The Delves are still not that difficult to do without DE. Only a pure Faction team represents the true difficulty in the Delves.

To be honest. The devs like DE’s effect on the game. It makes the Delves less easy. It slows down ranked PvP and many times causes losses. As for Guild Wars, they really don’t care about guild wars… Like at all. So yes, that makes sense that they are dragging their feet on any changes. There’s no reason for them to change it from their view point. They disregard any veterans quitting the game as simple “burn out” or attrition rate.
When a lot of times it’s simply, “hey I don’t enjoy facing a DE defense in PvP 50 times a day. I play GoW because I enjoy the PvP. Now it’s not fun, so no reason to play GoW anymore.”

@Sirrian prides himself on game balance. For every troop their is a counter.

When I first started playing Bone Dragon defense was the meta. Entangle was the counter.
Then Kraken and Mab was meta. Impervious troops were the counter.
Then Divines were the meta. Barrier was the counter.
Now DE is the meta. Only Invulnerable is the counter, but the troops that offer it are useless otherwise.

Rather than just offer criticism. I actually have a solution.
Take the “random” out of DE and make it so it can only transform the first troop. Doesn’t unbalance the Delves. Makes it almost useless on defense. But still allows players who enjoy it on offense to have fun with it.

Literally that easy folks. This isn’t solving global warming. This is cleaning up spilled milk. To make it more than that is over thinking the issue. Unless I’m 100% right, and to the devs, DE isn’t an issue. :person_shrugging:

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Glad to hear they are acknowledging it as a problem, though if the fix takes too long I might be gone before the fix arrives. Lost yet another match to dragons eye. There is simply no counter to it beyond “Don’t let the AI have a turn” which isn’t really a counter at all. It takes no effort to fill the weapon up, 50%+ chance that it’ll double cast due to cascades, and then I have to either quit the match or play a 20 minute long single match using only baby dragons.

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Usually just a 3 brown gem match to pretty much kill a troop and clear a board. Yep. :roll_eyes:

I generally agree with you, but I do want to point out that, with every meta defense team, the troops were nerfed. Bone dragon creates fewer skulls, Kraken’s devour chance was dropped from 40% to 35% (with trolls and Nyx being nerfed too to create less mana while traits that trigger in 4x matches nerfed to only hit once per turn), Ubastet gets a much lower boost with Ishbaala having lower starting mana and no cleanse.

Basically, while you’re right the major issue is there’s currently no counter to transform (honestly, not sure why blessed doesn’t prevent it), I disagree in that simply providing the counter will be enough. Some kind of nerf, whether it’s the one you suggested (which is a really good idea, I think), or getting rid of the mana generation is needed.

I was basically covering all that to show how unprecedented the current meta defense is.

They already “nerfed” DE once. But somehow made it OP by nerfing it. That’s why they are saying they aren’t going to rush a change to it. They don’t want it to be OP but they like the nerf in the Delves.
I feel like my solution is the simplest and therefore the best approach. Because even if DE casts twice in a row, knowing it’s going to be the first troop makes it easy to put a Doom troop there. Or take your chances by not doing that. The way the GoW universe is supposed to work. Counter with the perfect team in PvP. Or try something faster and take your chances.

The simplest fix would just be making it transform the user along with the target. That prevents it from being spammed constantly, while giving the victim a chance to turn the tide by having the baby dragon use its spell.

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That’s being suggested already and of all ideas is the most silly, pretty sure everyone will ever use a weapon that make who use it lose his class and all the class talents lol.

Ps:to prevent the spam is enough remove the gem destruction, done, after the cast is always end of turn.

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This is a stupidly overpowered weapon. It needs to cost vastly more mana, or impervious needs to prevent transform (and blessed as well), or it needs to have a chance to fail… It needs SOMETHING. It is pretty dumb that I lose to it because my own team is suddenly a useless baby dragon.

The best solution is that it can only transform the first target, always! Period.

Because that has more abuse potential? I don’t think making the weapon even more powerful for high level content is a good approach, even though some players might welcome the easy mode.

It’s actually quite the opposite! You can’t abuse it as long as you want any more.

Would you consider an explanation helpful why reliably disabling the skull damage dealer in a high level team is a contender for most overpowered move in the game?

That’s great for skull damage teams. Yao Guai, Ketras, Infernus, Queen Titania, Pharos-Ra, The Dragon Soul, and probably about two dozen other damage dealers who hit harder than the average skull swing aren’t going to be phased by it.

My go-to team has the hero in the first slot. Sometimes it does skull damage, sometimes it doesn’t, depending on what I’m leveling. The things on my team that do the actual killing tend to be the things listed above, nestled in slots 2 and 3 depending on how afraid of Khorvash I am.

You know what’s more overpowered than consistently disabling my slot 1 troop? Having a 50% chance of hitting one of my two main damage dealers, refilling yourself, getting a free turn, and trying again just in case you missed.

Well, the enemy ai might have problems actually killing troops if it keeps transforming / healing the first troop. And soon bless will protect from troop transformation.

Blessed is a start. I never understood why they didnt just nerf all transform abilities to have a natural immunity to that specific type of transformation. So for example Dragon Eye can NOT transform a troop to a Dragon if it is already a Dragon, that way you cant multi transform dragon to dragon a bunch of times.

If paired with TPK you would have to tempo the castings.

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You seem to be talking about PvP, not the high level content I specifically mentioned. When going against level 500 teams it’s not the spells that kill you, it’s the skull match that just happens to drop in. Dragon’s Eye hitting the front troop cuts attack to roughly to a third, which provides a huge safety buffer for picking off all the troops behind it. It negates the inherent risk of actually casting Dragon’s Eye and having the attached gem destruction line up some skulls for your opponent. They don’t get their spells ready faster for being at much higher level, so it’s fairly easy to have counter measures in place by the time they do, especially if you can delay them by granting weak skull hits.

Dragon’s Eye always hitting the last troop is an entirely different story, that would probably take some kind of troop shuffling to exploit.

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Ooooooh. I lost that context somewhere in the chaos that is the not-quite-threading of the forums.

I agree 100% that Dragon Eye is ruining this game - at least for me. I am a level 1340 player having played for over 2 years - and am considering leaving the game simply because of Dragon Eye. Besides all the items you mention I have taken great care the past two months to record Dragon Eye casting and the percentage of times it transforms. I ignored the first time because obviously if all your troops are not baby dragons one will be transformed. But if one of your troops is already a baby dragon - if Dragon Eye really was “RANDOM” - once in a while it should duplicate the previous transformed baby dragon. I am not going to document here are the possible percentages but the conclusion I came to was Dragon Eye transformed a troop over 80% of the time regardless!! For example if you already have 3 baby dragons & only one not-transformed troop - it should only transform the one not-transformed troop 25% of the time - but still 81% of the time you get transformed!@! If you manage to get one of the baby dragons promoted to a real dragon - 1 cast it will find that troop and transform it also. I TWICE experienced 6 casts & 6 transformations! How is this random. My sample size was over 300 cats and 81% of the time you get transformed. No surprise when I have the dragon size (not playing against but playing with) the percentages are what they should be. Dragon Eye is ruining the game. PLEASE make it a one cast weapon.

A change is being implemented after reset: