I can’t help but notice that almost every recent thread is a bug report of some kind.
Welcome to gaming in 2018. In 5-10 years we’ll catch up with 20 years ago, when you paid $60+ for a game and it couldn’t be patched daily so it told you what it’d come with before you bought it. We asked for it by paying tens of thousands of dollars for stuff we wouldn’t have called a $20 purchase 5 years ago.
Even then it didn’t stop bugs from shipping. Secret of Mana and FF VI have lots of little ways to break the game.
And we have to hear the same old excuses over and over the same old issues. For example:
- We can’t afford people to work on saturday/monday to watch for issues.
I mean, it’s likely? How much do you think it costs to pay to get a half-decent IT professional with a relevant skillset for weekend work? How much business sense does it make if:
- 99% of the time this person will be paid to work on their 2nd job since nothing’s wrong.
- Players don’t stop playing if something goes wrong on the weekend.
If nothing else, participating in a lot of online gaming communities has taught me gamers will put up with a ridiculous amount of abuse and dispense scary amounts of money for the privilege. And they complain roughly the same amount when things are going well as when they aren’t.
I’m not dismissing this topic. I sure would love for GoW to have the polish I felt like it had when I first started playing. I feel like most updates introduce as many bugs as they fix, and I lament that most seem like something basic QA could detect.
But we don’t have the financials for the game so we can’t really make statements about “they can afford this”. It ain’t cheap to hire developers. When it is, you get the kind of developer who leads to adages like: “a 10x developer is the kind of person who creates problems it takes 10 developers to fix.”
We just had global server issues some weeks ago, and more recently we had issues for X-Box servers:
And all that happened before, it’s an old recorrent issue and it gets the same old responses everytime: Reactive responses, never preventive ones…
About the use of half-decent IT professionals: If it’s the half-decent i’m imagining… kinky long socks and bow ties…
But jokes aside if working hours flexibility is an option in Australia i suggested:
This seems like a very plausible way to make this happens, not necessarily with Salty, Cyrup, Kafka and Ozball, but i’m sure there are people who could do their work regadless if it’s weekend or not so they don’t need hire people exclusively for this two-days job.
This whole thread…ugh…
Comparing modern gaming to previous gaming is short-sighted and unfair to the developer. Today’s developers are expected to add content, change content, and develop more complex systems that what was ever done previously, and do it in an online world where they have to implement security and anti-cheat.
An Atari cartridge had 0.0005% of the code Fallout 4 does, so it was MUCH easier to debug and test every feature and interaction. It’s easy to say that a game that took 4 kilobytes of memory was perfectly coded compared to Gems of War which has over 500MB of assets and code.
All this talk about leaving developers alone on the weekend is a ridiculous concept. Do you honestly believe that’s how creative teams work? In a vacuum one developer could make very little progress on anything, and you still have to pay them the same.
Yeah let’s hire one IT guy to sit there in case there is a problem. No high level IT professional would even take that job. You would be stuck with someone who could fix minuscule problems only.
Do you know what we CAN do? We can stop complaining about every little thing and making their job so undesirable to continue. We can recognize that they want to provide the best content possible and stop nitpicking every little thing then whipping up maximum hyperbole because “my new weapon isn’t showing up! Disgusting. Vile. Incompetence!!! Fire everyone! I want my money back!!!”
Every game that adds content weekly/monthly will have bugs. There is no exception to that rule.
I always filter out the bug reports as I rarely run across a bug while playing GoW. The ones I do are easily ignored.
Edit: Just a reminder to keep this thread civil and polite to everyone, including your fellow developers. I’ve already got a flag and I haven’t had my coffee.
I don’t think it’s fair to talk the complexity comparisons you did because it is no easier to visualize the entirety of Pac-Man’s logic as it would be Fallout 4’s. There’s some interesting discussion to be had, like “Windows 95 required 30MB of install, I’ll bet most of GoW is assets and if it has 30MB of code I’d wager 25MB of it is Unity itself.” So let’s not talk “file size” as a metric. I also don’t want to go down the “ease of debugging” road. It’s not the point I was trying to make.
What I mean is games today don’t tend to start and end with their initial design document. Games that shipped once did. That doesn’t mean they couldn’t release as horrible messes. But if you happened to like a game, it would always deliver the same thing to you.
Minecraft is my go-to example. I played in alpha and bought it in beta. I liked it better pre-charcoal. There was a lot less to do, and I liked that. Now when I play it, I have reminders and doodads everywhere that I haven’t made like, sorcery books or enchanted equipment? I looked it up and realized a sad thing: where Minecraft used to have a tech tree you could fill out in a couple of hours of hard work, now it had an F2P tree requiring tons of mining labor and hours of farming materials. I liked old Minecraft, not new Minecraft.
But that’s how GoW works. It’s “not finished” in the sense that we know and sort of expect quarterly feature releases. Those features can often devalue or take attention away from old features we liked better. Sometimes they come with economy adjustments that change whether a mode we like is “worth it”. Often, there isn’t enough time to make sure every new thing interacts as expected with every old thing, and each release increases the number of things that interact. Here, odds are no one remembered there was a “summon a random storm” weapon. I sure didn’t.
It’s… unfair to call that “open beta”. Beta is supposed to imply that a game is feature-complete but needs testing and balance tweaks. It’s more fair to call GoW “a game in progress” and we aren’t sure where it’s going to end up. For all we know they’ll add slot machines and gem poker. Or magical gem girl dress-up. Or a kingdom based on fast-food franchises.
When there’s always a new feature, there’s always something that hasn’t been heavily tested. That’s why we find lots of “oops”.
You nailed it, but sadly Doors entire point was to cause controversy, and to talk crap about the game – as he does all the time.
Credit where it’s due… I believe i give the devs enough praise for what they accomplish, but i can’t stand for what they do wrong.
As i said, in a very reasonable fashion, they keep reacting instead of preventing problems. This is a bad way to deal with a business that ALSO runs on players’ satisfaction. You mentioned progress in a vacuum and i would like to ask you: Do you think negative feedback happens in a vaccum? Do you honestly think nothing wrong happened multiple times until some players got really peeved?
Everyone have different degrees of tolerance to different problems in the game or the community and you are entirely free to disagree. Your feedback is welcome as is the feedback of everyone else, and that means even negative feedback, as long as things remain civil, should be accounted and considered.
Right! And after 400 bucks spent on this game, I just read the forum. I logged in once after reset, played a match, it disgusted me. The game, for how buggy and unbalanced it is, demands hours upon hours of attention. And what do I get if I choose to give it that attention besides a monotonous grind? I get the priveldge to buy energy to do that same grind all over again.
Then, and most recently, they give people more ingots. Everybody’s happy. Let’s ignore the fact that Overworld currency is being MADE OBSOLETE IN FAVOR of A NEW, UNCLEAR PROGRESSION IN THE UNDERWORLD WITH A CLEAR PAY TO WIN MODEL. Is it that hard for people to see that delves are unclear for a reason? They want people to max out, be unable to progress. Then those people go spend money on gems. To get Mythics. ONLY TO REALIZE that a fully traited Mythic troop, and a team of them, is COMPLETELY WORTHLESS because of over inflated stats on enemies.
A very smart business strategy. People will fall for it. But then the devs come and talk about balancing, nerfs, act all friendly. In real life, I would equate this to somebody spitting in my face while shaking my hand. One does not counteract the other.
And those balancing and nerfs? Some months late on Ubastet and all they effectively did was nerf Infernus and exploders. But hey, they buffed WorldBreaker, right? No, actually, they nerfed that poor thing so hard into the ground that he couldn’t explode out of it.
The devs are unaware of their own programs limitations. For example, 50 percent of 1 is 0 according to this game. 1 gem boom, no mana gained. That’s something I can overlook… BUT NOT WHEN A-Y is also messed up, and the only functional part of the game is Z, the cash shop…
But wait, no, no it isn’t. People are throwing money away on this… stuff… and then having to come here and post on a public forum about it… because that’s the best, if not only way to submit a bug report. “Didn’t get weapon after purchase” threads are there after almost every update.
This isn’t an indie dev, and they aren’t working on a complex program. This is a match 3 game with cash shops. I equate this to somebody trying to throw money into my car window, but I leave it up on purpose only to apologize later and then watch the poor sap continue attempting to throw money at me.
Oops. This went on longer than it should have. Oh well. People are blind to greed and shady, mostly dysfunctional business practices. I’m not shocked or amazed that people are closing their eyes and pulling out more money for IP+2.
Do you see most of the lingo used in threads? “I bought”, “I spent gems”, “I bought up to tier _”… yeah. Remember when it was “I played for _ and ran across _ meta and I’m bored?” Now, everybody is talking about “BUYING” stuff. 5 bucks here, 5 bucks there, 12 thousand dollars for 100 gems, oooo new weapon, 5 more bucks. And none of it actually makes a difference because the difficulty is meant to keep you BUYING, but the reality of the situation is there is nothing you can buy that will actually help you. Your delve level and treasure and whatever other garbage they put with a level bar won’t help you. And by the time you realize it, you’ll have given them hard earned money that they will do nothing with except put into creating a map that invalidates the Underworld currency, only to repeat the cycle. Do you really wanna contribute to that? I don’t.
As for me, I’ll continue to browse and sometimes post in the forum until 505 realizes they can’t make money off of a pay to win game that devs don’t know how to program a cash shop for.
I think most F2P games are at that point now. Deliver a basic model then flesh it out over time instead of executing a complete and clear framework.
I finally saw you on the ladder! It was the first time I’ve ever gotten to play against your team.
This has a perfectly innocuous explanation: people who spent money feel entitled to the game they spent money on. And as new content gets added, the game transforms away from that first game. They are using their status as paying customers to try and elevate their complaints above what F2P players are saying.
Or, they are saying that the model as currently is costs more in game currency to maintain a F2P method. A case in point, 1,430 gems Tuesday to Tuesday on 3 weapons and Tier 3 in Raid, more than can be recovered per week by the average human. That’s the current game.
Dude, I thought I was intense about this game, but I got nothing on you. Holy crap, man. And I read your whole comment, and… Wow.
For what it’s worth, though, at your core point, I do agree with you. And I do miss the old days when this game didn’t feel like a second job with everything it wants you to do and didn’t have it’s hand out asking for Gems every time I sneezed. Ah, those were the days.
I honestly haven’t loved this game since about update 3.1. There are things I still like about it though. Only reason I’m still here. But, I’m not sure how long those things will hold me here. Especially, when I almost dread every update now, because I’m more afraid of what they’ll take away than excited for what they’ll add.
Welcome to Gems of War 2018, Everybody. Enjoy your stay.
It may seem like I’m really intense about this game, but I’m not. I just posted an actual thought process instead of a pay to win joke for once. I’m not always a troll. <3
I’m beyond having things to like about it. All the good has been wiped away with an image of a really poor implementation of “but if you bought this X would be different”, yet it wouldn’t be.
Here is my advice to people like Doordash. They rarely take it.
You are not having fun. You feel like you are having fun. Our brains do get a rush of happy hormones when we feel like we’re “doing something” about something that makes us angry. But you are not having fun.
Fun is what you were once having with GoW. Probably. Fun is what you could be having playing another game. Fun is a thing that you don’t stop doing to go make a forum post about, because you’d rather do it more. Fun puts a smile on your face and when you DO talk about it with other people, it puts a smile on theirs.
This is mostly a place where people who are having fun come to share experiences with other people having fun. There’s bug reports, sure, and occasional drama, but it’s mostly a friendly place for people having fun with GoW.
So when you walk in making a big fuss about how fun it isn’t, it’s no surprise there aren’t a lot of people joining in the conversation. But you take it a little further. The way you post has a strong, “You shouldn’t be having fun” sense to it. I’m not going to bicker about if it does. It does. There is often very little constructive about your posts of late.
It’s sort of like if you don’t like Disney, and you’ve decided to go protest at Disney World. It may be within your rights, but it’s not a place where many people are going to want to hear your points. You’d get a more sympathetic ear at, say, Six Flags or Universal Studios. But even there, people don’t want to talk about “I hate Disney”, they want to have fun.
And that’s really it. People like to have fun. They don’t like to be told they shouldn’t be having fun. That’s why you’re already disagreeing with this if you even made it this far. But I’m trying to help you.
Keep posting here and you’re working to take away from peoples’ happiness. Sooner or later you’re going to be booted out, which is going to make you even angrier. It would be more productive to take that energy and throw it at something you like. That way you’d be working to add to peoples’ happiness. Nobody’s going to boot out a beacon of happiness.
If you don’t like a game, stop playing it. Don’t make it your life’s mission to ruin it for the people who aren’t unhappy. If you win, you’ve hurt people. If you lose, you’ve hurt yourself.
I go through this myself. Pot > kettle > black. Sometimes I get really worked up about the game. I always regret when I say something intended to make other people upset. Always.
disney is indeed an evil place
None of what you said is inaccurate and wrong in any way shape or form. However, I don’t intend to cause misery for people. Being constructive is very difficult to do for me when it comes to this game. The devs only care about money in my mind, as proven by things I described in my earlier post.
I’m not actually angry. I understand brain chemistry all too well, I make my living with that understanding. I’m not coming here to vent, or to cause misery. I’m simply amusing myself by making pay to win jokes. Is it productive? Not really. Do I get anything from it? Not really. It has become more of a habit and something I do, without much reason behind it.
This is why I stopped playing the game. The grind to getting the next _, only to realize that now I can grind with said _ for the next _ and on and on and on. I’m a smoker, but I quit cold turkey for a year on a bet with my mom at one point. Addiction and I have never really gotten along. I am a creature of habit though, and as such you see me running around here making pay to win joke posts.
I suppose empathy would suggest that I should leave everybody alone and let them have fun with GoW, however, I don’t necessarily think I’m the voice and the end all be all for this game. If somebody is made to feel in a negative by my posts, they can simply block me. Yet thread after thread, post after post, the same people that are presumably upset with me continue to like replies directed at me by others. Instead of just solving the problem and blocking me, they continue on, hoping somebody said something to me that they themselves won’t.
In reality, I have zero issues with anybody here. We all live in the same world and we all have our worth, and it is certainly not defined by how we see Gems of War. All people can go off is what I post, and if I were on the other side I’d probably tell the OP, me in this case, that “just leave then, go be happy”. Knowing the full story, however, I wouldn’t say that, because I’m not upset to begin with.