Gnome-a-Palooza Change

The devs made it quite clear why the change was made to Gnome-a-Palooza without bogging down the explanation with specifics.

Firstly I want to talk about the team(s) that were used during the first Gnome-a-Palooza and why they were different than any other farming teams used to date. This first team is the most efficient, especially in the time department.

Sister Superior (SS)
Dust Devil (DD)
Ironhawk (IH)
Ironhawk (IH)

The first thing to note about this team is that if it fights a group of enemies that don’t have 25 or more combined armor and health, it will kill them with 2 spell casts 100% of the time without touching the board or giving the enemy a turn to act. Those 2 spells of course being SS, which does 10 to all enemies via the 2 IH’s, and then DD, which does 5 to all, and then another 10 from the IH’s.

Dust Devil (DD)
Ironhawk (IH)
Ironhawk (IH)

This team is similar to the first, but slower because of Greed’s trait to explode a gem before you make a move, and a longer cast animation on Greed than SS. This team was also popular, because it also killed groups of enemies that don’t have 25 or more combined armor and health, it will kill them with 2 spell casts 100% of the time without touching the board or giving the enemy a turn to act.

One thing that sets these teams apart from previous farming teams, is that people are willing to forego the use of the hero, and any hero talent exp, which is fairly rare for farming teams. Normally people try to maximize everything they can, but these 2 teams are so brutally efficient that

Now there are 2 additional reasons that these teams are different from all farming teams that came before them. First and foremost, you don’t have to interact with the board, including 4 matches. Secondly, it doesn’t give the enemy a turn to act if they don’t have a combined 25 armor and health. Now while this seems intuitive for the sake of speed, I think it goes against the spirit of the game in a negative way. All previous versions of fast farming teams, Elspeth+Bombot, Birdbomb, and Rowanne teams, rely on one or more empowered troops to interact with the board, hopefully cascade, leading to using the primary damage dealer to 1-shot the entire enemy team, and doing so in the same 2 actions that the above 2 teams could do. Now while these teams could all potentially 1-shot enemy teams with substantially more armor and health than the 2 teams listed above, they had to interact with the board, and had a chance to not fill up their respective damage dealers, and not cascade, giving the enemy a turn to act.

Now, while the above 3 teams were fast farming teams, they again had to interact with the board, have a chance to not fill their damage dealer, and not cascade and get an extra turn, thus giving the enemy a turn to act. So the old and new teams are very similar, but also very different on a fundamental level, aka interacting with the board and/or giving your enemy a turn to act.

The solution the devs came up with of course helps deal with the problem that first 2 teams that I listed caused, aka a massive influx of a variety of resources via a team that could consistently win fights in 10 seconds or less, not even counting what the use of the eventual vault keys would give.

I do however want to propose some simpler solution to maybe try out for the 3rd Gnome-a-Palooza event. The first solution, which I’m kind of surprised wasn’t done first, is to nerf both IH’s 3rd trait and DD’s spell from 5 damage to 3. This drops their damage potential from 25 to 15. This combined with maybe a level increase on level 1 explore to maybe 12 or 13, if needed, should put troops out of range for such a strategy.

Now there is another team idea with slightly higher damage than the first 2 teams, with 2 DD’s and 2 IH’s. In their current form it would do 30 damage to all enemies, and 18 damage to all enemies if the numbers as nerfed to what I just listed. Now while this may seem like enough to overcome the problem, it opens up another problem for the farmer. That problem is that DD doesn’t give you an extra turn like SS and Greed do. So the opponent gets a turn to act no matter what, and you have to deal with any 4/5 matches on the board or leave them for the enemy. So while it seems like a simple addition to get around the nerfs and level increases, it makes the team like any other farm team, minus a hero.

Another potential solution, though potentially more involved, is to change the ratio of the level up stats of all the non-Cedric gnomes to frontload their armor and health, thus putting them above the 25 damage threshold that the top 2 teams can do. This won’t change their health and armor values past a certain point, level 11 i the case of the current lowest level of explore, since you are just changing the locations of some 1’s and 0’s, not replacing 0’s with 1’s.

Making the above changes could allow you to increase the loot drop rates back to their original point, or potentially do a hard but small nerf, instead of the scaling nerf for quick fights and lower levels.

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The loot rates won’t be reverted. The problem isn’t that Ironhawk allows you to do 10 second battles. You can achieve almost the same speed with multiple other teams, possibly taking a few seconds longer, even at higher explore difficulty levels. The nerf scales rewards to one battle per minute. This is a hard cap, it is very much intended exactly in this way. Other companies might have been more honest in communicating this, it’s essentially what got announced if look past the embellishments though.

There’s a reasonable chance that the next update changes Gnome-a-Palooza from 15 minutes to 15 battles, to also cut down on vault keys. This can only be done with a client side update, not a server side update like the current nerf.


If you think troop nerfs would solve anything you are wrong.
Rowanne team 2 casts, any class with 50% mana start + aoe weapon two casts. Anything with aoe dmg which can be mana boosted two casts.
Half the troops could get nerfed just to make palooza yield less reward.

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Players are asking to nerf left and right. Devs respond to nerf. Players at war.

IMO, gnome-a-palooza is fine now. It doesn’t need to be nerfed any more.


Nerfing troops would just lead to a running battle between the players and the devs, as the devs keep nerfing troops & the players keep using teams that break their 1 battle per 50 seconds.
And if they nerf Ironhawk, I want the resources I spent to get multiple copies for low level farming (outside of GAP) back. Pay me in crafting resources.
Putting a nerf on resources for playing “too fast” in a TIMED EVENT is like being challenged to a race, and you can choose to either have your left foot chopped off, or your right foot chopped off.


I leveled all 34 classes to level 100 nearly 2 years ago and it was one of the best decisions I ever made. I basically never did any battle with a class that was already at 100, except for Guild Wars if I had to. When you no longer have to care about Hero Class experience, you can finally use whatever class best suits the team. That’s one of the main things I hear from players is that they can’t level up classes because they feel like they have to use ones they’ve already gotten to 100 first (like Sunspear, Titan, Frostmage, etc.).

The fact is, you cannot blow through explores for gnome weekends or gnome-a-palooza with your hero. You HAVE to use 2-3 Ironhawks and 1-2 Empowered troops. There is no way around it.

And I think that’s a very important thing that the devs carelessly ignore, because not EVERYONE who is using those teams has every class maxed. A lot of players probably are doing hundreds and hundreds of battles and forgoing a lot of hero experience in that time. Remember, to get a class from level 1 to 100 requires 5050 battles (@ 1 XP per battle). For all classes, that’s 171,700 battles, each one with a hero that isn’t already at 100.

And a lot of fights, you WANT to use your Level 100 class, especially for every class that has Fortitude or Fireblade (all the others are kind of trash… Thieves’ Guild and Lord of Storms which give 1 Magic on 4 matches and when allies cast a spell are okay).

Lets just be real.

That first 24 hours was to appease all the people who came on the forum and lost their minds when they found out how rare the campaign and gnome troops were.

Their nerf of the verse gnomes in GaP was warranted. It should have been done before release when the beta testers told them the rewards were borked. They knew exactly what was going to happen.

What it seems the devs didn’t know because they don’t look at the game, just spreadsheets with $ amounts on them was that even new players get Rowanne early on and can one shot exp 1-3. Even with the first change new players were able to stock up.

What annoys me most of all is their cowardly attitude. They blame that 1% for the nerf and are taking no responsibility for themselves ignoring the beta testers.

For those itching to use the flag button.

Coward - a person who lacks the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things.

If that doesn’t describe a person or group of people who can’t accept responsibility and put the blame on others then please show me a better term. Thanks.


For what it’s worth, the fact that this time they didn’t sold verses for real money got me worried for the next gnome weekend

Hero talent xp, the ones that give your hero xp not the class. Probably doesn’t matter to you if you’re over 1500 tho.
Just trying to clarify.

You still get hero XP even when you don’t use your hero though. It’s only class XP you don’t get.


I would suggest that gnome levels matter.
A stage 12 explore gnome a palooza should be more beneficial than a stage 1 explore gnome a palooza.

They matter, don’t they? If you play stage 1 explore you only get about 20% of rewards, no matter how long you fight. If you play stage 12 explore you get full rewards if you play for about a minute.

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I can do level 12 explore in 30-40 seconds though, and the rewards are nerfed the same. So no, it doesn’t matter. Being able to one cast shot a level 1 explore is very different than being able to blow through level 12s in 30 seconds with a good team.


The discussion was about gnome levels making a difference, which they do. A level 12 explore battle that takes 30 seconds has significantly higher (or, if you prefer, less nerfed) gnome rewards than a level 1 explore battle that takes 30 seconds.

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But gnome rewards are the same no matter what difficulty you do them on… that’s WHY players were doing level 1 explores during Gnome-a-Palooza. I don’t know what you’re actually talking about. If I kill a glory gnome at level 12, it can drop up to 1000 glory. If I kill the same gnome at level 1, it can drop up to 1000 glory. The time in between battles and how fast those battles are will determine how much that is reduced, regardless of difficulty level.


Not within a Palooza they’re not. Not anymore.

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Got these screenshots from our Alliance.




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The rationale behind the change (" if a battle is completed too quickly or if the enemies are too easy, rewards will be reduced proportionally.") is that players are going to blow through level 1 explores much faster than level 12. And that’s true. The fact is though that the rewards from a level 12 are still capable of being nerfed – not because the enemy level is too low, but because the fight can be completed too fast. With level 1 difficulty, both boxes are checked. With level 12, only the “too quickly” box gets checked. I posted about it here actually, 4 days ago:

My argument with Fourdottwoone is because of the statement made that “If you play stage 12 explore you get full rewards if you play for about a minute.”

In my posts which I just linked to, I argue that I should get full rewards no matter the length, because I’m not going to sit in a level 12 explore for longer than I have to. If I can beat it in 30 seconds, I will.

Which brings me to the main point: level 1 is just better, because vault keys and epic vault keys can’t be reduced any further, so you’ll always get more keys doing level 1 than you will level 12.

I could see an argument for doing level 12 IF the rewards were never nerfed regardless of duration of fight, because then you get more gold, more rewards, and more medals… but until then, it’s just a waste of time to sit around in a level 12 for exactly a minute just to get “max” rewards. You’re better off trying to fit as many level 12 fights in as you can. It’s better to do 2 level 12s per minute than 1, for instance. And by that logic, it’s better to do 4 level 1s per minute than 2 level 12s, since keys are what you should be after.



But all of that sort of misses the point.

Here’s how I read the exchange:

Person 1: “I’d like to see a system implemented where rewards scale with difficulty”

Person 2: “That already exists, actually, because the nerf didn’t only affect time-of-battles, but also difficulty of battles; ie: level 1 explore can never payout more than 20% of what used to drop, whereas level 12 can pay 100% of what used to be on offer (but only if one plays slow — not worth it, of course, and I don’t think Person 2 ever suggested otherwise)”

Person 3: Erroneously states level of explore has no effect on rewards — it can, one just wouldn’t notice unless one purposefully took a long time during test fights on Explore 1 vs. Explore 12 to remove battle-time as a throttling-variable in order to isolate the battle-difficulty variable (like, a battle that took 5 minutes in Explore 1 would drop from a 200-Glory Gnome only 40 Glory — 20% — whereas the same gnome in Explore 12 after a 5 minute fight would drop its usual 200 Glory). So, this would affect rewards, but not in a practical sense because the nerfs aren’t compounding (it seems), but rather are an else-if situation of choosing the minimum — either the “too easy” or “too fast,” rather than both (if I’m understanding the other thread correctly).

Person 4: States (perhaps unhelpfully) a much more blunt and less elaborated explanation elaborated upon in this post.

Then there are some pictures and other data points before this current portion of the thread.

Tl;dr: 1 — One should go for speed and Vault Keys in the Palooza, agreed
2 — One will not notice a difference in nerf severity if one plays quickly regardless of difficulty, agreed, because in that case time is the throttler, rather than difficulty
3 — It is incorrect to assert that difficulty has no bearing on potential rewards, as it absolutely will for anyone who chooses to be slow in their fights: for anyone where difficulty is the throttle, rather than time (which, again, should be no one, but that doesn’t change the basic functioning of the nerf-equation as-derived from extensive community tests)