i hope developers would clear that one out @Sirrian @Nimhain ?
(i think it doesnt change the teams you are offered with but might change the gold you can get from them…)
Regulars here will know (cue groans) that I’m usually amongst the first to complain about lack of variety in my PvP games… And yet, it’s really not that bad right now… I’m seeing much more variety in defence teams recently than in many recent times…
However I will support the point that there’s just too much mana drain around, exacerbated by empowered troops, and I agree with the OP that came from a ridiculous arms race when the sane fix would just have been to tone down the overpowered troops. Maw eventually got (rightly) hit, and isn’t the infuriating coin toss battle that it used to be (it’s still risky if you are careless) - so now we don’t need lots of empowered mana drain and board control as contrived counters do we?
Current meta doesn’t need a great deal of fixing, methinks. Let’s tone down a few OP cards:
- Khorvash does way too much true damage at that cost and drains two troops of mana - up the cost by 2
- manticore is way too cheap
- Mab still does too much damage and shouldn’t have arcane
- famine needs toning down a little
And while we’re at it, buff up some unloved cards, especially most of the legendaries. And War, and probably Plague.
8 Likes
Manicore: Agree, I don’t care if he keeps Empowered but his mana cost is too low
Khorvash: Mostly agree (I’d actually rather see the damage toned down than the mana cost increased, in his case)
Mab: Disagree (she’s really easy to counter now)
Famine: Agree, though not sure what to do about him personally
War: Unsure, he’s a better attacking troop than defending troop, which may be okay
Plague: Nah, annoying enough on defense as-is
@Jainus complaining about balance: Definitely agree
6 Likes
That’s actually a pretty good idea!
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What would be nice is
A) If you attack someone while he is invading someone (in pvp only) you get Surprise attack and get random positive bonus (+health,armor or more attack)points and you start the fight first.
B) if you invade someone while he doesn’t invade anyone you get a random negative bonus (-health,armor, attack) and AI start the fight first
i know B would happen more often but everyone saying AI is stupid, if Ai start fight it will be more challenging for sure
i also like this idea maybe not 20 teams cause not everyone got it but something like 5 teams would be ok and it would be against other player defense teams and they could also put limit x4 for each troops so if they want to use 4x same troop on the same team they will be able, but won’t be able to use them in another team
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The biggest problem with PvP is that there aren’t many teams that are successful while defending. So, players are spiteful/and or want to win once in awhile so they pick the most annoying teams to go against. People choose the team that has the best chance at winning.
I see two easy options for our future.
Option 1: nerf troops that are NOT OP just because they are “annoyIng” and dominate the end game. This keeps everything mind numbingly easy with no challenge. The things that make the team frustrating actually makes the battle harder. Apparently people do not like any sort of challenge.
Option 2: make teams that are better for defending in a less annoying way. Introduce more troops that the AI can handle nicely and stand a chance at winning. Perhaps look at some core gameplay changes, like make the AI smart enough not to drop down skull matches for us and make it so they are smart enough to make a gem match in order to drop 1 skull down into a match (if possible. Like in that described situation the AI would just move the skull to match, even if you could make a gem match that drops that one skull. That way it would get mana AND skulls, which could fire the troops skill faster). We need more troops that we can use on defense and sometimes win against. People do not like to always lose, especially when you make it important to win defends! We need Troops that make it so people can’t steam roll through your defense team… Troops that actually pose challenging. But then it would be called frustrating and annoying so you’re back at square one.
Which really only means that we should expect nerfs and be able to always play brainlessly because any troop that actually poses a challenge and causes some losses is considered OP by the majority and consequently nerfed.
2 Likes
some AI defense team only suck cause they playing 2nd, too often i can kill one or 2 troops before the AI can refill mana or even make his first move, it’s really easy to win when you start. but if AI start with these team they would be more effective team and more variety
If the longer fights will be accordingly rewarded that could make the game a lot more chilled, couldn’t it? Instead of having to rush through dozens of fights you could just take your time and get similar (although probably still quite a bit lower to prevent people from just lurking in a fight) rewards.
I know that it probably is pretty unrealistic that some people will give their preference to those long battles, but somehow I like the Idea of being rewarded (or at least not punished?) for taking your time.
As a side note it could also lead to people starting to use less common and more interesting attack groups because it wouldn’t be that much of a disatvantage anymore to fight for three or four minutes instead of one or two. And that, in turn, could lead to a more varied assortion of teams you’d encounter in pvp, especially with the revenge mechanism Sirrian mentioned.
Edit:
seconded
That coud make an interesting approach: What if you’d gain rewards according to the number of players that choose to attack your defense team? (Of course with a mechanism to prevent mono-peasant-teams - for example drasticcaly reduced gold & points rewards for invading weak teams) That way the community could decide wich teams they like to fight and each player would be challenged to make their defense teams as interesting as possible to be fought (as opposing to winning) as often as possible, in turn encouraging variety. (This method might on the other hand need a considerable rework to the AI to make it harder to play against, otherwise PvP could quickly become horryfyingly easy)
yes if, if there was extra rewards for taking longer fights head on i would like it. but i was referring to just getting fights longer without any extra reward which is what it is now and apparently many ppl wanna punish those who just skip the longer fights, why on earth should they take longer fights if they are not more rewarding? for some knight-errant sense of honor?
edit: especially that the ppl who set the ‘longer fight’ defenses actually dont want to be attacked so if they are skipped its a win-win right? thats what those defense are set for right? not to just waste more of someones else time with no other reason to it, is it?
i think time how much the fight would take should be actually taken into consideration when balancing troops. Becouse having short fights is an important aspect of a casual match3 game, as of what kind of players this game should target is developers choice but i think the targetting would have to change/shift a lot if the fights would be actually getting longer and longer in the end.
hmm if drain and other slowing-down the fight properties were higher team-power scored for the defense score, then we could get the long fights more rewarding and that would at least even them out?
but back to the ‘pvp not enough of teams diversity’ subject…
what ideas do we have so far?
-timed event themed unit/kingdom boosts
-timed event themed unit bans
-removal or total rebuild of the defense win/loss consequences system
-system that would be rewarding defense team ‘uniqueness’
-making defense team less relevant by using invade team as the opponent for revenges
-forcing a change of team by limiting the time units are allowed to be used on defense
-using all or few teams toggled between each other instead of setting one team for defense
-limiting units to be allowed to be put only max of 4 of the kind in total in all the teams together
- variations/combinations of the above
any other ideas guys? looking at that all… i actually like a system more rewarding uniqueness of the team, coz then it possibly have a chance to not require constant programming like the events do, and still offers motivation for players to make a different team, it may not even have to touch the balaning at all if the rewards only touch the defense win/loss rewards which are pvp points souls keys gems etc, so a highly unique team could loose no pvp points when loosing and gain a lot of points when winning for example where the most common def team could loose a lot pvp points when loosing and won nearly no point when winning… players would have to find balance between a team strong enough to win and unique enough to make that win relevant
1 Like
Along those lines @Annaerith, here’s 2 ideas we’ve been toying with:
1. Weekly events
We prefer the carrot rather than the stick here… we’ve been trying out a design for weekly events that theme automatically around a kingdom. So, suppose Khetar is the kingdom for the week, we have some combination of:
- Khetar Kingdom bonus gets a buff, or
- Undead bonus gets a buff, or
- Undead units get individual buffs, or
- The Banner unlocked with Khetar gives a buff, or
- The tribute bonus for the week is buffed if Khetar is your home kingdom, or
- Some combination of the above
This should shift the meta for some folks every week. Of course some adventurers just like to watch the world burn, and will leave their defenders untouched, but that’s okay… we’re chasing some variety with this not _total_variety.
2. Troop/Reward Modifiers
The game automatically generates a DEFENSE reward-modifier for each troop, based on their usage… maybe gets updated daily or weekly.
These would be small… +10% to +50% maybe, maybe +100% for a troop that is WAY under-utilized.
By constructing teams of under-used troops for DEFENSE, you then get a neat little multiplier to your rewards… get a clever team together and win a few games and you get great prizes.
Imagine even getting that on a LEADERBOARD somehow…
19 Likes
Congrats on making it 2 yrs, almost every game out there played 2 yrs you will lose interest IMO.
Amazing, im looking forward to both, sounds like fun!
(i wonder what kinda defense rewards would be referring the bonus to)
and haha imagine the hectic week when mab or khorvash banner bonus gets doubled xD but as long as those shift weekly i think it will just enhance the fun before anybody gets tired :))
that might just hit the jackpot 
I cant see them making much of a difference. Better than nothing obviously
I haven’t played PvP for more then 30 mins / day in more then a month, it is just utterly boring that invade is everything and there is no challenge at the end game except QUANTITY OF INVADES!!!
Joe shmoe 1:
Die hard fan - Unemployed and plays GoW 24/7
Joe shmoe 2:
Looks like a die hard fan from leaderboard but he/she is actually a bot and doesn’t play GoW at all, this person understands what matters… QUANTITY OF INVADES!!!
Joe shmoe 3:
This person plays 6-12 hrs a day and balances work & life and he’s not aiming for top leaderboard.
Joe shmoe 4:
This person plays casually a couple of hours a day at the most.
Joe shmoe 5:
This person is bored of this game and barely plays the game wether it’s PvP, explore, arena, treasure map, etc.
How do you balance all Joe shmoe’s ?
Your answer is the same thing its been since this game was released… QUANTITY OF INVADES!!! So it’s balanced and you should just be less bored or work less or spend less time with your family to be able to compete.
Take a look at HOW MANY TIMES A DAY YOU GET ATTACKED, it’s about 10-15% of what your daily invades is (you get attacked up to 10-15 per day and you invade up to 150+ per day depending how much you play…)
What are you still NOT noticing ?
Defense wins is garbage reward and there is ALOT LESS defense fights occurring then invade fights.
How does this make any sense ? How does it make sense that defense gives you nothing good compared to invades but there is WAYYY LESS defense fights as a whole ?
HOW IS THIS LOGICAL ???
WHAT IF, maybe just, WHAT IF SOMEONE WAKES UP and decides to give defense wins MORE POINTS and the invading player LOSES MORE POINTS FOR LOSING.
IT WOULD FIX JOE SHMOE 1 & 2 MOST LIKELY!
YOU GOT THE DIE HARD PLAYER THAT HAS NO TIME TO SPEND IN THE GAME OR DO ANYTHING ELSE EXCEPT PPPPVVVVPPPP ALL DAY, HE WILL RETREAT FOR SURE BECAUSE THERE IS NO PENALTY… ITS ALL ABOUT QUANTITY OF INVADES!!! QUANTITY OF INVADES!!! QUANTITY OF INVADES!!!
BOTS SUX AT PLAYING BUT WHAT THEYRE GOOD AT IS QUANTITY OF INVADES!!! AND SINCE LOOSING AN INVADE MEANS YOU DONT LOSE MUCH POINTS… ITS ENCOURAGING BOTS PEOPLE WAKE UPPPPPPPP WORLD WIDE WEB!!!
I don’t know what’s worst, this game continuing on the same path or trump getting elected…
Rant done\
Piece out
@Sirrian If I could give your post 100 likes I would!
I ABSOLUTELY LOVE the idea, can’t wait to see what the team settles on.
im near the #1 shmoe and i dont retreat fights becouse i like to take my chances at harder fights if i am at it. Also i simply dont care if someone else retreats or not, becouse i think everyone have a right to decide how to manage their time and if they dont wish to admit to a long fight that is their business. giving more penalty for loosing invade will NOT change the quantitious character of pvp leaderboard - the top leaderboards will still be the way they are becouse many ppl like the #1 will just do their pvp farm with a high win ratio as they used to, the change you are asking for will just frustrate the casual players most as they will have to struggle so much more to actually reach tier1. we had high penalty for loosing when 2.0 came out. too bad you werent paying attention to pvp enough at that time to see how it went and why it was changed to how it is now. botting of course is wrong and all bots should just be banned obviously so if you wanna yell please yell requesting them getting banned instead of trying to pass some countermeasure that would backfire at honest players.
3 Likes
Defense wins are supposed to be a garbage reward. You don’t get rewarded for playing on autopilot, you get rewarded for actually playing the game.
10 Likes
This X1000.