Top 27 Guild Wars Score Implementation

We believe that although being able to replace a player would definitely help the situation, it would only be a band-aid fix that could potentially bring on its own problems.

We haven’t really discussed reducing the amount of teams in each bracket, so I can’t speak for the others, but I personally don’t see 10 teams per bracket as an issue.

The most glaring issue seems to be the scoring format.

Actually they do exactly that!! in the olympics and in many competitive sports… where for example an athlete gets 3 runs and each is scored, but for the final tally they factor only the top 2 scores and throw out the lowest score… lmao

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That may apply to individual sports, but rarely in team sports. Gymnastics Team All-around is the only one possibly that leaves out the “worst” scores.

If a player on one team becomes unavailable - regardless of the reason - during a game, the other team is not penalized by forcing a player on their side to not play (or worse their effort to not count). The team with a loss must figure out a way to win. Football (not the American kind) and hockey are just two examples of sports in which shorthanded teams must continue playing.

Back to the OP… my view is that this proposal is totally unnecessary. GW scoring is about the overall team and not individuals. Every guild is at risk to losing or missing players any given week. The proposal does not “even the playing field” since it is already even. It actually penalizes full guilds by disallowing scores that should be counted.

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If a player on one team becomes unavailable, they are able to be replaced. We can’t do this in Gems of War. Again, have you ever seen a basketball game played 4 on 5? Why not? There’s 12 players on a basketball team, but do all of them have to play? If 1-3 players score 0 points, does it negatively effect the team? In American football, there’s up to 53 players on a team. I’m sure you get the point, no? In Soccer and Hockey, as stated earlier, one team being down a player is referred to as a PENALTY, and is only temporary. So, even in your example it’s literally called a “penalty” to be in a situation where the other team has more players.

Do you believe 29 vs 30 is even?

Where is the penalty? The team with 29 or 30? The guild with 30 players is not penalized in any way. The team of 29 players is penalized for somebody leaving, going on vacation, or whatever the reason may be.

If 4 teams are based on 30 scores, 2 based on 29, 3 based on 28, and 1 based on 27 - how is this even and fair? If the scores were based on the Top 27 players for EACH AND EVERY TEAM, where is the penalty? How is this uneven?

I agree 100% that GW scoring should be about the whole team and not individuals, that is the entire purpose of changing the flawed scoring system. One person missing has too much effect on the team’s score and end ranking in GW. 29 players get penalized too much for a single person not contributing, for whatever reason.

Would you not welcome a fair and even competition? Do you have to rely on other guilds missing players for your guild to rank higher? Please try to see the bigger picture.

I do agree with some of your points to an extent, though, and that’s why I personally believe 27 is a better solution than 25. There comes a point where having too many players missing should be a detriment. 1 player missing just holds too much weight in the current system, and it takes away from the purpose of the event. Filling your guild is the #1 priority and the most crucial determining factor under the current system. It shouldn’t be.

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You keep using the word “fair” when “fairness” is the last thing you care about.

And about the “shareplay = teamwork”, i wonder then why Verstappen dont qualify with both cars every race (ik last race Albon did well but was quite an exception)? would be completely fair and just a good example of teamwork, at least from your way of thinking.

In every game (ok, was different kind of game, mostly mmorpg’s, but same thing, guild vs guild) i played so far every GvG was LOT less Fair and with way less “even playing field” than we got there.

Let alone it’s called WAR also, not “The Best “Fair” Basketball Tournament With Custom Rules” (like, my team is Russell Westbrook and 4 clones of him ;3) and on wars **** happens.

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Why do you keep flagging my posts best? Just because what I say makes sense and you don’t want my opposition posts to be seen?

This change won’t go through and nobody agrees with your gws dreams and wishes. Just give it up and spend your time getting ready for the next war rather than trying to ram your ideas down everyone’s throat.

@Micio - please explain to me how advocating for an even scoring format for all guilds is evidence of fairness being “the last thing I care about”.

Shareplay is teamwork. I’m not sure how it can be seen any other way? Would you care to elaborate on how this doesn’t equate to teamwork?

This isn’t real war, it’s a game. Real life happens and 30 people can’t realistically be expected to always be available every GW, nor can we always be punished and penalized for malicious intent beyond our control. These are not my “rules”, it’s a proposal to change the scoring format, and it’s not even my idea. There is no proposed rule change. The idea was initially presented two years ago, before I played the game. Obviously the current system (still in place years later) is flawed and it was recognized before I had even made an account. It has nothing to do with me or my guild, but rather the same common problems almost every guild leader faces come GW time. I’m not sure how you arrived at cloning players and stacking teams, but nothing even remotely close to that has ever been suggested.

@IMMABAUS your flagged posts are flagged because they’re off-topic and ad hominem. Once you google that phrase, maybe you’ll understand? @Lyya specifically stated she didn’t want this thread to devolve again into off-topic ad hominem.

Many people agree with this proposal that was presented and agreed upon years ago. In fact, 76% of the voting player base agreed. The 4-5 guild leaders I presented a similar idea to are the ones that made me aware of the Top 27 proposal from years ago, and suggested that WE stick with that, as it seemed the most fair and reasonable way to solve a lot of issues. The majority have already posted their support. Those opposed are clearly just hoping for that last bit of leverage they can take advantage of to rank a little higher and get a few extra gems. Well, in all honesty, most opposed just don’t like me and are putting their fingers in their ears and sticking out their tongue like children. This is why there is no logical debate, just selfish spam posts littered with weak insults and insinuations.

Let’s recap:
-NOT my idea
-MANY agree
-NOT about my guild
-29 vs 30 is uneven
-27 vs 27 is even

If you want to even make an attempt at having an actual discussion or debate, address the points I’ve made and tell me where they’re flawed. Use your big boy words, try to use some logic, some reasoning, and refrain from the childish banter. Set aside your obvious intent and make a case to keep it the same rather than change to Top 27.

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I did not read every post so maybe it was mentioned

But has anyone thought about how it’ll work daily vs weekly
Say 29/30 do it Tuesday with the 30th on Friday

Does the 29 total count for the daily win, or do they take out 2 lowest scores and then add in the 30th accordingly later
Or do they count as the full score until Sunday when it does a mass calculation

I’m all for the change, but the logistics need to be planned out carefully ahead of time
I’m sure it’s

The details still obviously need to be worked out, but we should probably leave that type of stuff to the developers. They may have to do it in a particular way due to software or something we don’t know about.

In theory, it would just update as you go, as it currently does, but will only take the top 27 scores. The daily win will be based off of whichever team scores higher by reset on that day, just as it does now. If your 30th guy plays Tuesday’s match on Friday and scores in the top 10, it won’t count for the daily win bonus, but will obviously count for your daily totals.

As it is now, you can lose the day (the bonuses) by having a player or two not completing their matches on that particular day, but still end up beating that team once all your players finish if your scores are higher than theirs.

Does that make sense?

Sure
I’m not saying I’m confused
I’m saying it would take a lot of forethought and programming
So people just need to think of the whole picture
It’s easy to say we want 27 top scores
But we need to think about implementation and side effects, less some get mad when it isn’t implemented quite how they expected
Get it right the first time if u want the full potential of a positive change

NOT my idea
-MANY agree
-NOT about my guild
-29 vs 30 is uneven
-27 vs 27 is even

Ok I will debate all of your points.

#1 - you can’t say that it’s not your idea when in fact you created this thread with the proposal.

#2 maybe many do agree, but many more obviously disagree

#3 it is about your guild because dothraki is constantly down a member half way through the week. For obvious reasons.

#4 this is the only one that is correct 29/30 is uneven. But let’s not penalize other guilds who have all 30 players playing and take away the bottom scores just because a guild doesn’t have reliable players. Life isn’t fair and not everyone gets a participation ribbon.

#5 27/27 is not actually an even number. Even numbers end with 0,2,4,6,8.

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@Micio @IMMABAUS

Let it go. You’re not going to budge him and he hasn’t heard a word some of us have shown, with math mind you, that there IS in fact a penalty to guilds that maintain 30/30. He’s responded to every critique or opposing opinion with a verbatim set of talking points. His 51 responses make up more than 1/3 of the entire “discussion” and shows how strongly he’s set on convincing everyone.

This is all the evidence you need that he’s completely written off any opposition and won’t accept any opposing debate:

For the record I’ve never interacted with the guy prior to this thread, but any excuse to discredit opposing view points I guess.

Finally, I’ve realized we don’t have to defend 30/30 so ardently anyway, so we can just walk away. Seeing that the devs created the system to be 30/30 and it has yet to be changed, the 27/30 crowd has the uphill battle & burden of proof as to why it should be changed. Not the other way around. If it hasn’t been changed in the last 2 years or due to the last several threads of this kind, i’m not expecting this one to be the catalyst that brings the change about.

Let this thread fall into obscurity like all the others before it. It’s run it’s course. Time to move on.

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@FeelTheBern - I agree. I think we could make suggestions, but ultimately it would be up to the devs. It has to be in line with what they’re capable of doing. Typically there are software or programming limitations. Back in 2017 it was mentioned that it will need a client update. Doesn’t seem too outlandish.

@IMMABAUS

#1 - Very cute! While I appreciate the compliment and recognition, I can’t take credit for something that was presented years before I consulted with other guild leaders and revisited the idea.

Here’s the link: Lots of Previews - Guild Wars, Crafting, Dungeons, and more!

July 2017 - before I started playing the game. You’re wrong.

#2 - 76% of the voting player base agreed that 30 was the inappropriate amount to base GW scores off of. Less than 1/4th of the voting player base (24%) believed 30 to be the fair and appropriate number. That’s over 3x the amount of people who agree with our stance than are opposed to it.

Here’s the link: Poll: How many members should HAVE TO fight in Guild Wars?

Now, let’s take a look at this particular thread, since what you’re trying to pass off as reality is that people are opposed to me in this thread: 23 people supported the idea and 10 people have opposed it by stating so in this thread. That’s more than twice the amount of people who are for it. Again, you’re wrong.

#3 - Your obvious attempt to make this thread about me or my guild is pretty sad. Despite your best efforts and failed insults, I won’t let you deter the thread from the topic at hand and make it about me. So instead of talking about The Dothraki, why don’t we use Gra and BL as examples? Guild of Gra has consistently placed 2nd, 3rd, or 4th in GW B1 on PS4 for an extended period of time. The only time they every drop below 3rd or 4th is if they happen to be missing players. BL consistently places 3-5th in the same bracket. The ONLY time they go above 4th place is if Gra, The Dothraki, or Dragoonz is missing players. So, when the playing field is even with 30 players on each team and Guild of Gra is not at an immediate disadvantage for missing a player, they almost always beat BL. Yet, this most recent GW, they ranked 4th while BL ranked 3rd. Is it because BL is “stronger” as you like to put it? No, it’s because Gra was missing a player and/or had people not finish their matches. Why should he and his guild miss rewards and be penalized for only one person’s lack of action? Why should your team be rewarded for filling up the last two spots with alternate accounts to gain a competitive edge over a team that clearly beats you when the field is even? Your intent is obvious. You’re trying to make this about YOUR guild and the fact that you need to rely on other guild’s misfortune to gain those extra gems. You’re not worried about being competitive. You’re not concerned with fairness. You want an advantage, you don’t want it even. If I look at the top 10 rosters on GW and see that Gra is at 29/30, I’m disappointed. I want an even and fair competition. I don’t want to place based on luck or advantage, and I don’t wish the other guilds to be immediately penalized for things out of their control. So again, Jesse, you’re wrong.

#4 - 29/30 is uneven, this is not debatable. I think you struggle with the word “penalize”. Let me clarify this for you:

penalize

verb
pe·​nal·​ize | \ ˈpē-nə-ˌlīz , ˈpe-
penalized; penalizing

1- to inflict a penalty on

2 - to put at a serious disadvantage

So, you’re saying that if the playing field was even and all guilds were based off of the same number of scores, guilds with 30 players would be at a disadvantage? You literally have the definition of the word backwards. It’s the players with 29 players or less who are penalized if all scores are based on 30 players. You clearly just don’t know what that word means, or you are once again selfishly focused on only your guild and believe you’ll be at a disadvantage in an even scoring situation. Still clinging onto that tiny bit of advantage you so desperately rely on to place higher, eh? Unsurprisingly, Jesse, you’re wrong again! Weird.

#5 - Again with childish cuteness! So sweet of you! However, you’re wrong again. Here’s a “math hack” you can use throughout life to figure out these tough addition problems, and I’ll word it so that it’s very relevant to the current topic. Ready?

When both sides are equal, the result is EVEN.

Pretty neat, huh? Shall I show you how it pertains to this particular set of numbers? Why certainly! 27+27 = 54! 54 is an even number! Would you look at that? It ends in a 4, Jesse! So, although I understand your struggle and confusion with this one, I also appreciate your willingness to learn. To truly learn though, buddy, you must first accept that you were wrong. Again.

Those attempts at debating were better than your previous ones, but I would suggest trying a little harder to omit the negative connotations, false information, childish overtones, and obvious intent. Just you know, grow up a bit, and talk like an adult. Thank you.

You claim I haven’t heard a word, but I’ve addressed literally every single point that anybody has made in this thread. Those opposed have not. They, like you, have not discussed or debated. You’ve stated your opinions and have failed to elaborate on how or why it is the most fair and reasonable way to go about it, while ignoring my opposing arguments. As I said before, it’s reminiscent of children putting their fingers in their ears and sticking out their tongues.

Do you know how a debate works? Each side presents their argument and the opposing side argues against it.

In my previous statement you quoted I said “most opposed just don’t like me”, I didn’t say all. It’s very clear to see by all what the intent is of those opposed. Obviously if you’ve never interacted with me prior to this thread your intent wouldn’t fall into that category. Sorry if I didn’t specify, but I assumed that went without saying. I recently received a PM from someone who will remain unnamed, but the way they phrased it might be better than I have, so I’ll share it with you:

"Hi there. Just wanted to say thanks again for fighting the good fight and continuing to post intelligent, well-reasoned, and logical responses in your Top 27 GW thread.

It truly baffles me how anyone could be against this idea. I think the vast majority of players would be happy with the change, but unfortunately the thread has attracted a few obnoxious posters who must have their opinion be known – repeatedly. The analogies are embarrassing. The reasons for wanting to keep things the same are selfish at best and otherwise unnecessary or uninformed. It’s as if they are acknowledging they can win through sheer number of players but not through quality of play.

I can’t be on frequently enough to champion the cause or respond to the haters, but I just wanted to acknowledge all the efforts you’re making on that front. No need to reply…I just wanted to say thanks again and let you know that you’re not alone in your thoughts. :slight_smile: "

I thought it was very well said.

The poll was from July 2017…isn’t that before Raids and Invasions? Not everyone liked GW back then, not everyone likes it now.

I like it, and prefer it remain 30/30. Keep it simple, and let the devs focus on other things.

Dude, you should be megahappy i left the psn msg grp where you tried to recruit me (and then tried to poach every guild memeber in the SS with high enough GW score for your like) and where you said what’s your only goal in life, would have took a SS and posted there.

Said that, take advantage of the 30/30?

Get some brain cells if you can, your personal rules would actualy advantage US by a lot, in fact with YOUR rules we would have ranked over your guild lol, we are far away than a dictate “all is about GW and take revenge of the traitors and the guild they gone in” and we even got some ppls that didnt even done 30k sometimes lol.

Now get lost you fake paladin of “fairness”.

Ps: i was mistaken, still got that convo (10 months old lol).


In 10 months you got closer, just gotta try harder :3

I’m not going to lie. I didn’t read any of the super long response you left for me. I am very pleased that I was able to waste that much of your time though. Lol

While it’s true that the poll is from 2017, as is the idea, there is still a high demand for a change. In this thread alone there is more than twice the people for it than against it. You’re entitled to your personal opinion, there is just more people that disagree with you than there is that agree.

You seem mad? Again with the personal vendettas. Again with claiming this is my idea. Again with some nonsensical ramblings that have nothing to do with the topic. Same old song and dance from the same few that oppose it. Speaks for itself.

Everybody knows you read it. You just have no rebuttal, as usual. Proceed with putting your fingers in your ears and sticking out your tongue. After all, it seems to be The Best you can do. We won’t judge you, you don’t know any better. Hugs n kisses!