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If it’s 15 of each expect the nerf brigade to be out in full force.
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It’s not. Just think about it for a sec, that on defense would literally loop endless making it impossible to finish games anymore…
15 of each would be absolutely insane. That’s 50% of the board. The “nerf brigade” would be justified in this instance.
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@sirrian @nimhain please do a careful sense check of those (hopefully still placeholder) numbers on Artema. That’s still looking like 40-50 damage twice for only 15 mana plus the explosion mana gen…
Are we still on about that? As I said, it’s exactly the same as Stonehammer, even the spell description is worded the same. I don’t see room for speculations.
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45x2 doesn’t seem that insane, and with a very rigid condition attached to it, it should be really damn good. Outside of Centaur teams Artema is already really meh, let her shine in Centaur teams.
Wouldn’t want a Jotnar repeat, who is really bad outside of Giant teams and still mediocre at best with all Giants.
Not saying a couple points less would necessarily break it, i just really wouldn’t want to see an overreaction to deem this troop useless right out the gate, Leetdragon sends his regards.
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Spoilers are fine but too much time troops were nerfed before released… Can we test them before asking for a nerf?
Examples are: Death (I was part of the nerf-before-release-group…), Jotnar, Elemaugrim and Queen Aurora.
45x2 seems low compared to AoE troops that can do 30x4 without strong condition…
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I think people are crossing the nerf bat a bit due to the similar name.
Anthea is the spawner that is having people worries about looping.
Artema is the Flesh golem/ dark monolith.
Only one troop can do that: Krystenax, which is clearly objectively over-powered. No other standard AoE easy cast troop does more than 22ish.
Other exceptions have way more conditions or higher costs: Mab (mana burn adding to damage varies), Rowanne (easily neutered if she takes a hit), Gard (base mythic, much higher cost, again neutered if armour hit).
So I don’t buy the comparison… the numbers are higher, and stay strong far longer through the match.
With Herdmaster and an Oracle hero, I think putting a 3x Centaur team with something else for balance/utility (say a DragonSoul or Carnex with hardly having thought on it for long) will be easy enough to put up. 40x2 damage for 15 mana is nuts.
Oh, and explode a row. Exploding a row generates back something like 14-16 mana (spread in colours) depending on skulls… plus offers some board control and (with skill) the occasional extra turn set up. Aiming the explosion at the top three rows also reduces the risk of handing a good board to the opp.
As drafted that spell’s numbers are significantly above the current power curve. sigh… Why can’t we tune this one to be viable and strong and comparable in simple numbers to what we already have. Doesn’t take much more thought. Tune it a bit: -1 base damage, lose Leader, do x4 ratio not x5, cost 16 mana. Still strong. Less nuts.
I have no idea what you mean.
Anthea sounds okay; lots of gems but can misfire, and does little else.
Artema is the one I have been challenging.[quote=“turintuor, post:3304, topic:1280”]
Spoilers are fine but too much time troops were nerfed before released…
[/quote]
I disagree. Can’t remember what fuss there was about Death pre-release. The only one I’d look at and say, yeah, I misjudged that one’s power, is DracosLEET. I do not see any others which were unnecessarily tuned down or fussed over.
Even when the Centaur setups for Artema aren’t terrible (with a non Centaur in the team to stabilize it) you can’t use current super powerful troops(not gonna name them) or mana drain, or other needed counter mechanics in those teams without further weakening Artema by reducing the number of Centaurs. The Centaur dependency is a meaningful restriction.
My Coronet does 25-30x2, hits a sole surviver twice, has similar board manipulation opportunities, and while he doesn’t produce any mana, he costs significantly less and is just an UR.
Khorvash does 25x2 in true damage has double full mana drain, and double stun added for the same cost as Artema.
Compared to these two (with rarity in mind for Coronet) she really doesn’t seem exceptionell.
Apart from that i don’t see a clear defined power curve as you seem to do, there are plenty of troops in the game right now that are en par or significantly stronger than Artema without being restricted to one trooptype teams, or restricted in any other way and we are fine with it.
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Coronet doesn’t concern me much. It’s strong and probably merits being an Epic or Legendary in power terms, but doesn’t break much.
Khorvash is still way over the ‘average’ power curve and could still be toned down a little, especially on the mana drain.
Either (1) we admit that new troops are added with conscious power creep to keep the economics turning, or (2) we aim to add elements of balance and retro comparability - add troops that don’t massively shift the power curve - and try to maximise variety for people to build decent teams and face different teams.
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We agree on that, still there are other troops at powerlevels en par or above Artemas who aren’t a problem.
And then i look at Monolith, a troop that basically does Artema damage when wounded(which is pretty much a passive atm)without any team-restrictions and good traits but who apparently seems to be too weak in the current game to even be used by anyone, making it obvious that any new mechanically similar troop like Artema must bring more to the table than Monolith to even be considered worthwhile.
Anyways personally i’d welcome a troop that does some kickass but predictable plain damage without any effect-cheapness added to it or absurd stat scaling, and while Artema will be brutal in her first week, i sincerely doubt we will see too much of her after that.
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Or realized that that the power creep is outstripping the limited mechanics of the game. Power creep is a necessary evil in many games. But every once in awhile it needs to be beaten back down, but it never drops below where it was. Equating to everything rising, effectively not moving, but the base mechanics of the game are not changing to reflect the new state.
Think breeding crops in a field. Every season you cultivate better and better plants while weeding the old ones. But your still growing in dirt.
I think storms were an attempt to add new depth, but it had pretty much no effect at all. Maybe the new enrage can do something.
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Would anyone know which primary colors are associated with different troops? That can make a huge difference in strategy for and against color changing troops like that.
I already said them all. there are a total of 7 troops in the game who use the mixed-color creation mechanics (guild guardians and Stonehammer), and 1 more incoming (Anthea).
For two-step creators (e.g Jarl) it is visually evident which color they create first, so no real need to list them.
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I would argue that Garuda may fit into this category, as he starts around that 23 or 23 mark, but gains magic as he casts. I’ve gotten him up to 42, all in a match (damn FG barriers made me cast way more than I should).
However, it’s not much else. I do agree that most AoE troops will not get close to Krystenax’s power.
The problem is: once a troops is released its months if not longer before a change is made to a troops power level.
If the developers made small adjustments to a few select troops EVERY weekly reset the desire to Nerf something before its even playable would not be so great.
And lets not forget about Gards Avatar who basically does Artema damage to all 4 targets and not just to two of them.
And while Dragon Soul may do slightly less overall damage than Artema, it produces at least twice the mana and has a small tertiary effect as well.
There are plenty of troops that either do more overall damage or have an overall more powerful spell effect package than Artema.
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About the storms doing almost nothing, I respectfully disagree. Pair it with an exploder; dropping nearly a full screen of gems with one double-concentrated color is a sight to behold. 4-matches all over the place.
Ragnagord and Garuda are a spectacular one-two punch. They’re the mainstay of my red GW team and get used in PVP often.
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