The solution to this is quite simple; do not consider the strength of the attacker’s defensive force in determining pvp points. You only consider the strength of the defending force. That also requires a better method of determining strengths than there is now. I’ll get back to that. The pvp points worth would be a function of the difference between the strength score and the threshold. Next the 3 trophy battle is always against someone who has a line-up over a given threshold while the 1 trophy battle is always against someone below a given threshold. The thresholds can vary based on player level (somewhat higher for 1000+ level players versus 100 level players) and on pvp tier (higher as you approach tier 1).
Strengths should be based on rarity of the troop, active traits, and total magic, attack, armor and health each troop starts with in battle after banner, troop line-up (e.g. bonuses based on 3 or 4 of a type of troop), GW and kingdom’s bonuses are applied. So a fully traited, mythic, leveled troops for someone who has nearly all their kingdoms level 10 and 7 stars will be above the strength of someone who has the same lineup, but only has a few kingdoms at 5 stars. Also certain capabilities like devour, true damage, damage to 2 or all opponents etc would be worth bonus strength. That way the strength score actually reflects to a more accurate degree the battle strength of the force.
It is abundantly clear that these score mismatches are because the game calculates the team score based on the 1TD, then corrects its mistake and replaces the team with a randomly selected one.
Suggestion
Assumption: the code that calculates gold payouts is server-side, i.e. easily changeable.
Save the base XP awarded from the match, before armor/GW/etc. bonuses.
Multiply by 1.5 and subtract from 54. If number is negative, it becomes 0.
Players earn that % less gold, glory, souls, and XP from their match. (Traitstones are too discrete to deal with this way. Sorry!)
Edit for numbers: From what I can tell, each troop killed in awards 9 XP. That’s 36 for a full team of four, before any bonuses. If a player fields a 1TD, my approach awards [100 - (54 - 9*1.5)]%, or just 59.5% of the rewards. A 2TD increases that to 73%, 3TD nets you 86.5%, and 4+ earns the full 100% of stated rewards.
This penalizes players who fight 1TDs, which will hopefully result in players avoiding those matches. This, in turn penalizes the players setting the 1TDs by giving them fewer revenge opportunities.
Problem: there is no in-game way to communicate this change, so a lot of players who don’t read these forums will be confused by the drop in rewards. On the other hand, they’re probably already confused by the multi-mythic 5400-point defense teams they now see.
Wait up, hold the phone, stop the presses and let me see if I understand this.
End game players with fully ascended, traited level 20 teams (team scores of 9.5k) think that they deserve the same amount of gold as a mid-game (team scores of 7.5-8.5k) player for invading fully ascended and traited level 20 defense teams?
because that is the gist of what I’m getting from a few of these posts.
You are missing the main point. An end game player, right now, can change guild and go to one with lower level statues, and he will see back the 1500-1600 gold battles.
Being an end game player doesn’t have any effect, it’s the guild statues that are making the big difference.
Also, fighting over and over end game decks for 800 gold isn’t that rewarding nor rational. And you get those values even if you aren’t an end game player, like i am not, it’s just the guild you are in that sets this massive difference in payouts.
i agree. i tested this. i tried being in a new guild with no mastery. huge drop of mastery by points, significant drop of pvp rating. but the percentage of mana surge drop is very small, it was unnoticeable in battle. the gold and pvp points payout increased a lot.
i didn’t have the extra stats from guild task too at that time. so it may contribute as well. but it didn’t make much different at endgame.
the mastery diminishing returns is screwing up with things.
if only i can get enough people to disband and join a newly created guild every week. that would have been nice.
I went from a guild with hundreds of levels in masteries to one that has low level statues, my Mana Surge changed by 4-5%. Barely perceivable ingame.
Instead seeing those 1500-1600 battles have motivated me to play a lot more.
Btw. i would advice Everyone to avoid using 1 deck or 4 low level card decks right now, due to the bugged fix. You would end up doing less gold for figthing the same things as you had a leveled deck on defense.
Don’t need as much gold because A.) their kingdoms are all leveled, and B.)they have fully ascended common/uncommon troops.
Get more gold from hourly tributes so don’t need as much per fight as players of lower power level.
However, to get players to play as many fights at endgame as lower power level players (who need more gold and get less from other sources) they need to get less gold per battle.
So I guess what’s confusing me is why you think you need all that extra gold?
ok ive read all sides of the arguement so let me sum it up for everyone
you can still run lower strength teams to fight easier battles
yes they should find a way to make meta teams less used
i used the elspeth defense for the gold (not ashamed)
just like everyone else on my side im upset they changed defense team to be minimum 4 in the way that they did it. they could have just as easily made you put 4 troops in the slot instead of whatever random troops they wanted to put in, which leads to a 4400 strength team to be 4 mythics level 20.
if you want to avoid meta teams put 4 weak troops up it will change the strength of teams you fight. also at the same time shame on the devs for poorly handling this issue
edit: also if anyone is curious im level 1060 and i was getting the extra gold to help with tasks since im in a brand new guild helping new players get their feet on the ground
It’s not the same activity though. A player of lower power level has to chew through more health and armor with less attack and magic (and health and armor) than you.
Kingdoms are not the mid-game.
They are early-starting phase of the game.
that phase ends in 2-3 weeks of active gameplay.
mid-game is starring the kingdoms, which doesn’t require gold, but souls and traitstones.
The main sinkhole for gold in the game is NOT the kingdoms, it’s the Legendary tasks. being each one 1 million gold, the more you make, the more rewards you get. 1 million isn’t exactly easy to do, and may require days of farming.
Farming for 1500 gold a battle is much different than farming for 800 gold a battle. Making 1 million or making 500k in your guild weekly contribution would be the main difference.
Tributes aren’t really a game changer. They are there for FLUFF. i wouldn’t take seriously anyone counting to make their guild contributions via hourly clicking for tributes.
Rewarding LESS for doing the same thing isn’t exactly rational. By your thinking, if we would give just 10 gold for each battle to an endgame player he would be eager to play more to make the same gold he used to make. No, he would just quit.
Giving Half the gold to endgame players, has generated this kind of exploit (maximizing the time via 1 troop defence) to bypass the low income via gold.
I Believe more in Carrots than in Sticks, Carrots benefit activity and entice to more playing, while Sticks in the end just increase players frustration, harming player retention.
i think you didn’t get the point luther trying to make. the problem is not between all powerful endgame players and humble newer players. the problem is how guild mastery points is calculated into pvp rating. it was a comparison between players of same power level, but in different guild with different guild guardian level.
That’s a fair point. However, they are already penalizing later players by making other things harder. Getting a kingdom to 7 stars is way harder than 3 or 5. Troop levels drop from being worth 10 points to 2. So increasing the cost and decreasing resources seems like a double penalty.
Regardless, even if you think it should be harder for later game players, the current change doesn’t fix that. If your VIP level is low enough you can still continue to field the week teams, while higher VIP level players will have more difficulty. If they really want to shut it down, shut it down for everyone. They’ll still lose a bunch of players who are forced into the boring meta teams, but at least it would be fair.
And to be clear, I am not one of those affected. Personally I can still field those weak teams, so I’m not personally biased, but arguing based on what I see as both fairness and the health of the game. And my personal desire is for a wider meta as discussed in other threads, but until they can do things properly they shouldn’t do something badly just because it’s easy/fast.
@Grundulum Could you explain a little better your suggestion, i am missing where you are getting that 54, but i think you calculated it as it would be something viable ?
From what I can tell, each troop killed in battle awards 9 XP. That’s 36 for a full team of four, before any bonuses. If a player fields a 1TD, my approach awards [100 - (54 - 9*1.5)]%, or just 59.5% of the rewards. A 2TD increases that to 73%, 3TD nets you 86.5%, and 4+ earns the full 100% of stated rewards.
I actually like this and would choose it occasionally as it would still be a better investment of time than 3t battles @9.5k.
However this doesn’t address the issue intermediate and above players find where gold payout is pure shit across the board. I had kingdoms done around level 200 guess it was a nooby mistake.
I’m not totally following, since I am seeing 2 things happening (so an “AND”). Early game players get much more resources for the same battle (often double), while the items they use the resources for cost less or are counted for more (traits/levels for kingdom power). Not sure if it’s just the term “penalty” you don’t like (call it “reduced value bonus” if you like) or something else, but there are reduced resources available AND higher costs.
Masteries area big part of the problem, and not just from guild statues. Because of gaining masteries every level with hardly any change in actual power you team total keeps climbing up. I don’t know the exact math but I remember watching my normal attack team’s value tick up while leveling without any levels or traits changing. It appeared to be 1-1, which would mean that as a player about 1000 of my team score is level masteries, 600 is guild statues, and 300 is kingdom levels. A potato would have a team strength of 2K.
