PvP points for higher level players are just unfair

The higher your level is the less points you get per battle, because most of the players are low level. Who did the math on this… But in return the low level players get a lot more points from higher level players.

Why do I get punished for playing the game?


This is a big problem, that will become MUCH more noticeable as the leagues filter out the accounts that are inactive. Either they need to change VP awarded to be based on opponents player level only (NOT player level difference), or they need to at least group leagues together based on player level.


That’s what they did already. Only players of 1000+ started in emerald last week. Once the bunch of 500-999 catches up, it will get worse (I don’t think, that players below that mark are competitive enough to be a threat).

Something needs to be done, that’s for sure. 25-90 is way too much of a difference, when the best you can add on top of that is 35 additional points. The general rankings reflect that trend.
Also even outside the rankings, players who just want to go for all the weekly rewards are getting punished in the same way.

Basing points on enemy level alone or enemy team power would sure be the best solution. Other than that, I could imagine a narrower margin for base point difference (maybe 45-75) or an increased weight for bonus points.

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right but im saying to keep the league within 100 levels basically

Sounds difficult. If you need to establish ten league levels (with at least one group of 30 in each) for every hundred level range, some will end up very lonely. I can’t imagine, that the 2700-2799 players, to pick some at random, would even have enough to fill even one top league of 30. And we experienced the frustration with filler accounts last week.
And if you only get opponents from your league level, who were recently active, on top of that…

Not a good patchwork. Better to adjust the point mechanics, like you suggested, than the league system.

agreed on adjusting points if possible

Why am I even bothering this week ?


Blacking out parts of the image by cutting them or filling a rectangular area works better. :wink:
Though I am not completely sure anymore, why the names in the personal ladder are something to be kept private.

Definitely a bit harder competition this week. I don’t think, I’ll aim for top 3 with mine, but a promotion spot would be nice.

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Why is anyone? The game mode is broken and janky all over the shop. I’m firmly sticking to doing zero this week (unlike last week when I caved and sat in there for hours, urgh).

But, TBF, this weight system kinda is working as intended - to a point. It’s just that you’re on the edge of where it can start to get or feel unfair. It’d be far more unfair if you added 1000 to each of those player levels because there’s practically no difference between what they both could do by that point, but the penalties would be just as harsh for the higher level player. 1200 vs 1800 though, there has to be some weighting/incentive to the lower player.

I’m very nearly level 1290, so can relate to that player in your screen shot. I’ve been playing 5 months yesterday so that’s probably a bit high for the time scale and my level 1200s account won’t be as strong as other more established ones, but still, I have a good idea of what it’s like but can only comment on what I see and play myself…

I don’t have jack to work with vs. what you’ve most definitely got in terms of troops and inherent stats as a level 1853 player, so if I’m earning more VP by winning the same amount of battles that are plenty harder for me (and as you can see, the player up there has lost 5 attacks, so it’s not a cake walk for them, and their 80ish VP average accounting for losses means they’re punching above their weight aiming for the 90VP option every time likely taking a 14,000-rated team against 20,000-rated as it would be in my case). The level 1290 player is likely taking a lot longer and having to play far more strategically without a fleet of levelled mythics to choose from than the 1853 player has to in order to gain their wins. All my fights on offer range from 45-90VP base and they’re all tough enough even when they’re not proper defence teams because everything I see in higher levels is maxed out and mythic-laden. In Central Spire where it actually works (lol) every battle is pretty tough going unless aiming for the easiest options and having to do twice as many battles.

If it wasn’t for the lag bug right now, someone of your level would be able to rip through way more fights than myself and I think we’d have a fair reflection of VP based on time spent and not battles completed (even more so if the game was actually working and defence teams were actual, proper defence teams rather than just random troops… but even then, my opponents when punching up are all going to be level 20 troops with all traits and far more mythics among them even when randomly selected, and are going to be inherently far more effective vs mine that still consist of many that are lv1 zero trait junk ). The higher level player would be far better equipped to gain defence wins when I’m just there to feed either easy big VP for lower levels or quick and cheap fodder for silver-chasers at higher levels.

So there is definitely some method to their perceived madness, especially for lower level and more casual players who probably comprise a bulk of the player base - it’s not all the huge imbalanced mess it becomes the higher the levels go that I commented on here:

i am seeing this myself this week, but they leave the game unattended… at least i wont be demoted but i dont see a promotion this week either, i have 88 fights with 6809 and above is 61 with 7862 almost 400 lv difference

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This update didn’t even have a honeymoon phase xD.

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The update was like giving an ex a second chance… but after 5 years and 2 kids later :rofl:

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The thing about the time spent on battles, is that once you are in the 1000’s for player level, you typically have access to the troops that will allow you to make a decently quick team (for example beetrix and gobtruffle are incredibly easy to obtain) and the time difference between the level 1000’s fight and a level 2000’s fight could be as low as one or two extra casts (depending on team, though could be a good bit more depending on what region / team is best)

Consider most of my fights are 25-30 seconds + ~10 seconds total of load and picking next fight, when im using a simple journey troop team at level ~1500. A level 1000 would be able to do to do the same fight in no more than 5 extra seconds, maybe needing a few extra casts. My timing from fight to next fight is about 35-40 seconds and the level 1000’s would be 40-45 on average. The time investment per battle is NOT double (nor anywhere near), but the score IS going to be a good deal greater. This can be much worse if you look at different level ranges, 1500 vs 2000+ for example is a huge difference, since those fights should be pretty much the same speed.

Those in the 1000-1800 level range get to see a wide variety of base VP scores, where everyone below will basically always see 90 and those above will start to trend toward mostly 25 VP. Its just important to remember that while, yes, the fights may take longer for lower level players, its not MUCH longer and has a lot lower of an impact than the score.

As an example, when i got zuul’goth i was in the low 1000’s, and i used it until i got diamantina about a month ago. Stats do not matter for that team, and all my fights were ~20-25 seconds. New players can very easily obtain zuul’goth if they go for it (depending on holiday events and luck from vaults, as little as a couple months), and at that point the level difference means very little for how long the fight will take, but the score given will still vary greatly.


There’s more to it than that. Getting to level 1000 is utterly trivial these days, matter of weeks stuff if you set your mind to it. In the 300s is easily doable in the first week (someone who just joined my guild did this in 7 days), then get a Bee and off to 1000 in another week or 2 no problems with the right attitude/time/advice. A level 2000 player will have massively more troops available than that player, massively more inherent strength from kingdom power etc and likely be in a much better guild with maxed out bonuses and maxed gem mastery as well. That’s not 5 seconds and a couple of casts difference, it’s will I even survive single skull hit stuff.

Level 1000 vs level 2000 is a huge gulf, level 1500 and 2500 far less. There’s a lot that happens in those ranges; comments like these take just as little notice of the true disparities and where they are as the game currently does itself. Clearly the gulf can be a lot wider than some high level players without alts who haven’t made a new account recently seem to realise. Of course, there’s people who play ultra casually and have creamed off resources from guilds that take years to reach 1000, and in doing so could have a wide variety of troops and have made great kingdom progress plodding along. This alone says it’s not entirely a player level issue, that it needs way more nuance. Or to just go back to something with the simplcity of what was on offer before this huge PvP update.

What’s there now is bad, especially bad for some people and the higher up the lvels we go it only gets worse. But what some are proposing goes just as mindlessly far the other way as the game’s faulty assumptions present now. Basically player level is a terrible, terrible data point to base weighting off in PvP battles, it needs to either go right back to basics or take all kinds of other stuff into consideration and get very complex. If it stays as it is it’ll be awful for a great number of long-time players and be a disincentive for others to want to level up.

As for the Zuul’Goth stuff, yes people can craft that within the first few months no problem, but it’s not that big of a game changer and, ehh, PvP is not what it was - it’s not all a Central Spire free-for-all where you can use what you want when you want; there are all kinds of restrictions that will apply when the game is actually working properly, so you can’t hand wave that away with “…but Zuul’Goth exists”. I’ve crafted Zuul, Ctharrasque, 7/8ths of the way to Enraged Kurandara that will be complete in 3 dys thanks to the xmas event, Ruby Macaque, Wand of Stars, Dawnbringer, just and all kinds random weapons and mythic troops - all in a few days over 5 months of starting the game. I can’t jump into PvP and take on anything I like for the cost of another 5 seconds and a few more casts just 'cause I’ve got that crafted junk in my locker now, that’s sorta laughable. Then, conversely, others who have played years and don’t have even half of that stuff may actually be able to get away with it. All I know is my 13,xxx-rated teams don’t easily go toe-to-toe with the 90 pointer 20,000-rated teams I get offered, not even the random junkers the game spews out. Just a matter of a few extra casts? Heh, I wish.

tl;dr The weighting is crappy now, but going too far the other way would just make it terrible for a different subset of players.

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Being a higher level doesn’t guarantee you’re a better player. It just means you’ve spent more time playing the game so the chances of you being better are much higher.

I’m not yet in the boat where PvP has become a pain, but I don’t have the same level of understanding with team-building that other players my level do. For reference, I am currently in the early 1600s. Most players at this point are better at playing the game compared to me.

Does this mean I don’t understand that a lower level player will struggle more? Well, of course I understand a lower level player has more work to do. That said, I still don’t want less points in comparison. The devs are making assumptions about a player’s level of progress based on their level and equally assume that higher means better.

Yes, I have the resources to perform better. No amount of levels will change how I play the game though. I can make perfectly good teams but only with the assistance of another player. Let’s keep in mind I’m comparing my skill level to other players that have reached my level or surpassed it. I’m not saying my teams aren’t good enough to get the job done. I’m saying other people are doing better and making better.

In Guild Wars, my lack of understanding with team-building is best reflected through my defense team results. Some of the same defense teams are still destroying me years later and I’m only competitive to a point. Compared to other players with my level, some of the teams still destroying me would be a shock. I’m not exactly hardcore and I don’t play this game to be.

Although I’m not getting the worst of the lower scores, it would frustrate me beyond what I can express to be handed lower scores just because of the time I’ve invested into this game to get to a higher level.

Is it really fair to force people at higher levels to spend more time on PvP just because they have the right troops and resources? To me, it isn’t.

25 VP per battle, for example, wouldn’t motivate me. It would make me want to pass on PvP altogether. At the worst extreme, you need 80,000 VP per season if you want to qualify for every reward in the shop. How can anyone possibly afford that kind of grind per season? This isn’t a job.

Since a lot of players need Book of Deeds, that’s 20,000 VP per season. At just 25 VP per battle, we’re talking 800 battles a season just to have the capability of getting a single Book of Deeds and that’s not counting what’s required to get enough gold marks. The weekly PvP goals take a lot longer to hit if all you’re getting per battle is roughly 25 VP.

Why defend this? People at the highest levels are far less likely to spend money on gold marks. They’ve arguably invested the most time into Gems of War and the devs are punishing them for it so why bother with a purchase?

With the recent journey troops, you can literally loop to death ANY team, no matter your level. Just make sure you have 4 troops of the correct type, and the right banner on, and your loop starts on turn 2 or 3. Literally give these troops (epics by the way, so not THAT hard to get randomly if you didnt get them during the journey) to a level 500 player, and they can beat pretty much any team (might just take a long time if the damage per cast is pretty low). This is the team i was using in my comparison. With as much less magic as a slightly lower level would have (from kingdoms/renown) it would take them about 1 more cast per enemy troop, 2 at the most, to kill it. The journey troops also maximize bonus VP by consistently making an 8-match and taking many extra turns.

I brought up zuul’goth, because you can use centura-goth in central spire and have pretty consistent 30 second wins on ANY opponent because you are not dealing damage, but flat out killing. Getting zuul’goth, centuragon, and leprechaun gives the player their first (most likely) team that will literally do everything except defeat some of the old defense teams with tower and kurandara in about 20-40 seconds, so yes, it IS a game changer. Amassing 100 mythics that you never actually use does not do much for improving your win times in PvP, instead there are a small number of essential troops, and if a player knows what they are, they can try to target getting them (such as crafting in the soulforge).

We can all see the point disparity from the same number of battles pretty easily, but the time difference in fights is overblown. If you are using the correct troops, your time will be similar, but slightly slower, than someone with more stats. Also have to remember that the level ~1000 player can fight a MUCH easier opponent to still get 90 VP, they dont have to fight a level 2000, they can fight a level 1300-1400 and earn almost max VP. If a fight is taking more than a minute, for pretty much anyone, then a different region or different team should be chosen since silver marks will be literally pointless after the first 7,500 you earn.


I’m not bothered about this week or this new game mode in general. There is no point in playing thousands of matches every week for a paltry reward


Every fight takes longer than a minute for me. Not because of my team, not because of my strategy, but

Seriously, the mode is currently on the edge of being unplayable, at least in a competitive way compared to the rest of my bracket.

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lol yea thats fair. Im working under the assumption that the loads will be fixed. The times im talking about are the timer mid-fight, and the loads i mean are the normal loads one might experience in other game modes. I often pause as i fire the last ability to check the timer, and im pretty sure that doesnt include loads.

Im one of the lucky ones where, yes, i can tell its taking longer than it should, but its like 1-2 seconds for me. I would be completely ignoring PvP if the loads were 10 seconds or, god forbid, minutes like some people have reported.

I will do the pvp goals for the Dragonite whilst I am still trying to find the last Cosmic Dragon. I got 5 out of 6 on the day of release but the last FIVE have been duplicates. It took me 6 months and 32 eggs to get the last set :scream:

However, I can’t see any reason at all to strive to get in to a higher league (top 7) or even stay in a league at all since only the first three get the paltry prize.

So I am with you Clare.

It’s a shame as I would have enjoyed the challenge if it wasn’t literally impossible for me to attempt a top 3 spot.

I guess it’s back to same old Explore for me !