Psion, the camera prank

[Vangor]

@turintuor

But just imagine that you don’t have Scout (like when the game started). There is no way to counter as you don’t know the team that you are going to fight.

If you cannot counter, will you think that some of these troops are too strong and should be nerfed

The pursuit of this line of thinking is pointless as it has no bearing on reality… The fact is we do have scout available and we can see our opponents team beforehand so i dont understand how it matters whether the troops would be op if we didnt

[Vangor]

@turintuor

In my case, it’s pure laziness because it’s faster to fight with my overall good team and retreat if it’s not going well than switching for another team

For the record… This is what i do too but i almost never have to retreat

[turintuor]

In fact, you don’t have to imagine it, just to play Arena .

Whatever. I think we can agree that using counter makes the fight easier and counter is possible thanks to Scouting so on, we can say that Scouting makes the game easier.
So for me, it’s not a contest because of the huge advanatge of the player.

@Vangor

For the record… This is what i do too but i almost never have to retreat

And don’t you think that your team is a little bit OP as it can win against whatever defense teams you meet?

[Vangor]

@turintuor

And don’t you think that your team is a little bit OP as it can win against whatever defense teams you meet

No. Why? Because in my hands it runs like a well tuned violin. In the hands of someone else it is like the trying to catch water with a tennis racket

[Drathas]

@turintuor

So in fact it’s quite ironic: players who want difficulty are also the fans of the counter teams. So yeah it’s easy to win with the best counter.

I like the difficulty because as you said before I like the building teams aspect of this game. The ability to scout does allow me to make battles easier by changing up troops/teams. I really like Psion as a troop and I found him really useful against the Maw meta. Stealing 7 mana isn’t enough as that can easily be gained again on the subsequent turn, through surges, Links, Banner bonus etc.

I was around when there was no scouting, but due to my low level at the time I didn’t have a lot of team variability anyways, so pumping Valkyrie/Bat served well enough.

Still does.

[zachraziel]

@Drathas

Why shouldn’t players be frustrated? That’s what my defence team is for, or am I doing it wrong? Should I just get them to hand out flowers?

I laughed well at this

Also, love how the person that started this thread noticed the hate and left pretty quick

[Vangor]

@turintuor

So in fact it’s quite ironic: players who want difficulty are also the fans of the counter teams

Ironic? Sure… Rewarding? Abso-friggin-lutely!

Let me explain… When i build a team to use against a certain mechanic… Lets say psion, i build a counter to make the battle easy. The challenge is only there if the team or troop i am trying to counter is difficult… In fact, the harder the better. A well built team can make any team easy if the team is built to counter it. Therein lies the satisfaction! Building a team that makes a real difficult team look like chumps

[zachraziel]

Nice post, Vangor.

[turintuor]

@Drathas

Stealing 7 mana isn’t enough as that can easily be gained again on the subsequent turn, through surges, Links, Banner bonus etc.

Yeah true. And it’s the same for the spells of Psion, Manticore and Spirit Fox.
But why these troops drain only 7 mana? My guess is that they can fastly be reload, so drain at high frequency.
And it seems to me that “on skull” could also be in this category (depends of RNG but you don’t need any turns to load your troops to cast).

Now about Maw if he’s ready to cast and you have an happy skull, you take it and then only 7 mana is drained. Next turn lucky Maw with one match is full again. And you’re f*cked but you only play a skull, you could have cast SF for the same result. And if the mana drain is reduced, you will certainly use a better troop to counter/drain Maw.

And as a big fan of Maw, I’m quite unamused to not be able to play him ASAP Psion is in defense team: he always has a skull just when I load Maw… So I give up to use him.
Same for War and all other high cost troops on the front.

[turintuor]

@Vangor

Let me explain… When i build a team to use against a certain mechanic… Lets say psion, i build a counter to make the battle easy. The challenge is only there if the team or troop i am trying to counter is difficult… In fact, the harder the better. A well built team can make any team easy if the team is built to counter it. Therein lies the satisfaction! Building a team that makes a real difficult team look like chumps

Yes I know that some players take pleasure with that. But other ones just don’t care…

Honestly, how many players propose builds for GW in your guild? Versus how many who said nothing and use the proposed teams by others?
There are just some players who are not interested by building team or don’t have time or are not good.

And why should I have to play a counter defense team better than something that I want to play?
Does it happen to you to try a new troop, find a good synergic team but you are crushed because this team cannot be at the level of the META ones?

[Vangor]

@turintuor

Honestly, how many players propose builds for GW in your guild

Hahahaha yo we have a discord channel for each color so… Everyone lol nice try

@turintuor

And why should I have to play a counter defense team better than something that I want to play

Why should i be forced to quit playing GoW because you want a tap game… Just mindlessly tapping my phone is not fun for me… And all your proposed nerfs would turn GoW into a game where all that is needed is to keep tapping the screen

[turintuor]

@Vangor

Hahahaha yo we have a discord channel for each color so… Everyone lol nice try

Everyone? Niiiice. It should be difficult to choose between so many choices .

@Vangor

Why should i be forced to quit playing GoW because you want a tap game… Just mindlessly tapping my phone is not fun for me…

Strange because…

@Vangor

For the record… This is what i do too but i almost never have to retreat

… and the team that you are using are quite a tap game for me.

PvP speed teams

I know this has been covered but not in a while and since this game is ever evolving i felt an updated version was in order… Here is my fastest team with an almost perfect win rate! [Capture _2017-08-04-14-41-22]

@Vangor

And all your proposed nerfs would turn GoW into a game where all that is needed is to keep tapping the screen

Which one? Reduce mana drain of Psion’s 3rd trait or Khorvash’s spell to 7 will make the game so easy? Or maybe put Disease on Famine after casting?

You were claiming that Famine was dead because of the nerfs. Do you still believe it?
Before the nerf, Famine alone was enough to win the race of: who from the player or the AI will fill his drainer first. It’s not anymore the case and Famine needs a mana generator to be efficient. So now, we don’t see anymore Psion/X/Famine/Y but we see Psion/Ragnagard/Famine/X and this team is still very powerful.

When you nerf a troop, it became less strong in defense but also in invade. So difficulty should be the “same”.
And I take care to ask only for nerfs that will not “kill” the concerned troops, I don’t want what happens with Bone Dragon…

[Vangor]

@turintuor

It should be difficult to choose between so many choices

Sarcasm huh? And here i thought we were having a discussion… Guess i was wrong

@turintuor

and the team that you are using are quite a tap game for me.

Again deliberate ignorance? Ok let me be clear… Ahem… There. Is. A. Difference. Between. Grinding. Gold. And GW.

I cant put it any plainer than that. If you still dont understand what i am talking about then you will have too look elsewhere because i will not explain this game to you

@turintuor

Which one? Reduce mana drain of Psion’s 3rd trait or Khorvash’s spell to 7 will make the game so easy? Or maybe put Disease on Famine after casting

All of them! This is ridiculous

@turintuor

You were claiming that Famine was dead because of the nerfs. Do you still believe it?

Yes.

@turintuor

When you nerf a troop, it became less strong in defense but also in invade

The problem with this argument is who the hell uses famine and psion on invade? With the exception of kerby every single troop that has been nerfed into the toilet has been pretty much a defend troop… At least as long as i have been around.

And the only reason kerby got neutered is because he was equally effective as a defender as an invader

We can keep this up if you like but you are not going to convince me that i am wrong. Why? Because i am not. I do not and will not support the nerfing of any troop in this game right now.

I support balance sure. Bone dragon was unbalanced so i supported nerfing him. They took that to far if you ask me, making BD useless instead of balanced. I dont want to see that happen to any other troop.

[turintuor]

@Vangor

Again deliberate ignorance? Ok let me be clear… Ahem… There. Is. A. Difference. Between. Grinding. Gold. And GW.

Wow why are you taking suddenly about grinding gold and GW?
I assume that when you talked about “tap game”, it was about PVP and I never talked about GW…
So you’re okay to play a “tap game” for grinding golds? Is it what you’re saying?

@Vangor

The problem with this argument is who the hell uses famine and psion on invade?

Who used Famine and Psion on PVP invade before the nerf?
Else I have used them in GW because they help to have a safe battle. Because of the new scoring, they are surely too slow.

Players prefer to use generally effecicient killer troops to go fast. But on the defense teams, it’s better to put troll troops (drain, silence, gem spwaners). So, why do you expect that a good troop in defense should be used in inade?

And do you really see less Famine teams since the nerf?

@Vangor

We can keep this up if you like but you are not going to convince me that i am wrong. Why? Because i am not. I do not and will not support the nerfing of any troop in this game right now.

I support balance sure. Bone dragon was unbalanced so i supported nerfing him. They took that to far if you ask me, making BD useless instead of balanced. I dont want to see that happen to any other troop.

How can you support “troop balance” if you’re against any nerfs?
And why do yo think that the nerfs I have proposed will “kill” the concerned troops?

For Bone Dragon I was against the nerf because I know that nerfing the number of skulls that he could create will “kill” it… But yeah he was clearly unbalanced and I was hoping about a new spell better than this nerf…

[Vangor]

@turintuor

I assume that when you talked about “tap game”, it was about PVP

I am not responsible for your assumptions…

@turintuor

So you’re okay to play a “tap game” for grinding golds

Sure because the team i use makes it that way not because there is no challenge

@turintuor

Who used Famine and Psion on PVP invade before the nerf

Thats exactly my point! Dont you see? If people really cared about troop balance one would think that nerfs would be called for in equal measure for powerful invade troops as well as defend troops. Why then is it only defend troops are complained about on here? Because the complainers want an easier game

@turintuor

And do you really see less Famine teams since the nerf

Yes.

@turintuor

How can you support “troop balance” if you’re against any nerfs

Could it be because i feel the troops are balanced? What do you think i am arguing with you for? Because i like typing all this crap out? Geez gimme a little credit pimpin i am not trolling

@turintuor

And why do yo think that the nerfs I have proposed will “kill” the concerned troops

Because you are proposing taking already balanced troops and weakening them thus killing them like BD

@turintuor

For Bone Dragon I was against the nerf

This shocks me if true

And final thought regarding balance… I think we need to be talking about BUFFS not nerfs

[Drathas]

[Vangor]

Ok we found one who uses those troops on invade… But i ask you this @Drathas how many are above those two in your list? Because i doubt you are using them together so 1500 invades for you is what? .8% of all your invades? Not exactly what i would call ubiquitous

[Drathas]

Invades can be counted twice, thrice or quadruple when troops are used multiple times in a team.
My total number of invades are currently:

7,742 wins
352 losses

[Vangor]

So still not by any means your most used troops… Im sure i have used those troops on invade as well but we are missing my point here… I also dont remember you specifically asking for famine or psion to be nerfed

[Vangor]

For the record… My list says this

Top: valk-3303
Famine - 753
Psion- 0