PSA - It's better to complete all tasks (LT) every other week thanks to 4.3

#19

Tbh i dont think doing or not doing task got anything to do with the misterious way pvp work now, in our guild we got some ppls that get tons of points and tons of golds every match while others that get crap points and gold.

Seen we’re all in same guild and we did all tasks and lt’s too shouldnt all of us get low points and golds then?

Lvls are kinda varied but almost everyone is over 1200.

Only god know why it work like that now, look like nothing you do can change the golds/points (like for example using a low points team).

#20

We do this for a while now stop at task 11 and only complete the statues in a GW week and it works.
Level 1230 almost everything max:


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#21

It’s been confirmed by the devs. Team score dictates gold and PvP points. So those fluctuations between members has to do with their levels and kingdom stars.

#22

Yup. I don’t expect this to be allowed for very long.

The fact that players have discovered a way to “game” the intentional increased team scores almost assuredly means that this method is going to get whacked with the nerf stick rather quickly.

#23

I’m not so sure that it will get fixed quickly. The increased team scores just shines more light on an issue that has been around since May of 2016 when the rework to pvp took place, so it’s definitely not something new. It’s been brought up several times in the past and shouldn’t come as a huge surprise to the devs. There were threads posted shortly after the update went live by people wondering how some players could get upwards of 70 pvp pts. per match while others were down in the 40’s and low 50’s. By process of elimination it didn’t take long to figure out that guild statues played an integral part in the formula.

Maybe now that the discussion has resurfaced; something will be done about it because it definitely goes against the “spirit of the game”, something that I’ve seen the devs say they were against in the past.

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#24

Yep, encouraging newer GoW players/guilds who will probably spend more money on the game vs veteran ones due to their increased PvP point potential and incentive for higher places on the PvP leaderboard seems to be the sole aim here.

I don’t think any much will change. New whales are more beneficial to the GoW ocean it seems.

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#25

If you agree that 4.3 ruined Ranked PvP for you then please change your equipped pet name to… “PvP got 4.3cked”.
Thank you in advance.
20190405_233819

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#26

Strangely, I think my max potential earnings are higher, now :stuck_out_tongue: :man_shrugging: - from ~1,700 base gold to ~2,200. We’ve only completed 3 tasks this week, though, and my kingdoms aren’t all fully maxed at 14, etc. (although I have 4 at 10 stars for the +3 stat boost).

I can see how lots of people have been negatively impacted, though, and I think it needs adjusting/revisiting.

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#27

Not sure what is clearly a bug is doing in community guidlines. But they clearly have to fix the pvp point / gold bug.

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#28

That may be the worst part. After they said tributes were bugged. Just to be a smart ass. I did a bug report on the PvP system at that time. Assuming the devs had this system on purpose and knew it scaled against end gamers.


But instead of making it better in anyway. They made it worse.
So now we can only hope that enough of the community actually cares enough to say something about one of the worst inbalances in the game.

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#29

Max potential went up, minimum payouts as well. For pretty much everyone. If you are at the very high end of the score spectrum (say ~13k+ max score potential), however, you’ll see these high value options far less often because far fewer opponents are available that are considered “peers” or “stronger”. This is partially due to the introduction of 10 star kingdoms and factions mattering for your score, so while a huge number of players were available as opponents with at or near maxed out score values with just completed guild tasks and five star/level 10 kingdoms at level 1000+, much less people have these bonuses unlocked. Also, the hero can contribute up to 935 points more than a mythic fully traited troop on a team (rather than 25 less) due to talents and weapon upgrades contributing points, so not fully maxed heros or not upgraded weapons can be hundreds of points lower than their max potential, where basically every team fielded before was within 100 or so points of that person’s max potential. End result is that there are much fewer teams out there at or near the level required for the formulas for people with maxed out score bonuses to at least consider them “peers”, not “weaker”, which majorly shafts you on the payout.

I will say that the screenshots in the OP misrepresent the issue a bit, particularly on the gold front, since the “with guild tasks” shots show teams with much lower scores, and in the threshold of “weak” teams, which penalizes you heavily. Matchmaking is also part of the problem, granted, but there probably aren’t enough appropriate leveled matches around.

If all the people with 13k+ MSP were consistently matched with three trophy battles approaching the 13.5k score range, we’d see much less complaints about this. Similar things happened the last two times they messed with scores (and when they first introduced it), but these were able to eventually “even out” as more and more of the playerbase reached the point of diminishing returns by having level ten, five star kingdoms with completed guild tasks (whichever mattered for whatever version). However, this update takes that problem and exacerbates it much more than previously - this is unlikely to be phased out by simple “global progress” since both faction renown and 10 star kingdoms take a concerted effort to unlock and will continue to for the forseeable future, doubly so for players that entered the game after a certain point. PvP point payouts in particular for those at the high end are even worse than when they first introduced guild task score and very few people had the score bonus for completing them, and that is a 980 point disparity, which is more than every potential faction renown and ten star kingdom bonus is combined right now.

In short, we’ve seen the issue in the past and it was self correcting over time. But I highly doubt the issue will self-correct this time because of the amount of resistance required in reaching what is currently the maximum possible scores out on defense teams - maybe, given years. The formula really just needs to be tweaked at the high end so that more people are considered “stronger” or at least “peers”. For those asking for a full rework, well, it would also be pretty easy to make the system “fair” by homogenizing everyone to the same set of low-ish numbers. I’d rather not have that on the list of community sourced “suggestions”.

I’ll end with this, as an example a screenshot of an account with 13495 MSP:

The payout for the 13458 team is about where it should be, as is the 9k team, but the 12271 needs to be in the threshold for at least 1600+ payout and 30+ PvP points (on the 2 trophy slot, ~50 on the 3 trophy).

This account as a MSP of 13146:

Gold payouts are within reason (but slightly low), but score payouts still aren’t close to what they should be.

And an MSP of 9916:


Gold and score payouts are appropriate. Note that the middle team 10% lower than my max potential still gives almost 50% more gold payout over the minimum. While the middle team in my first shot 10% at less than that account’s max potential score gives only about 20% gold payout over the minimum.

This leads me to believe that the score differential “grace range” for when the formula decides if a opponent is “worthy” is probably a flat number, rather than a percentage. And it probably isn’t working on PvP point payouts, since they are consistently lower on all my higher accounts.

tl;dr: Players getting “less” for the same level of battles as they progress isn’t that bad if the intent is to make you want to take stronger battles as you progress, but payouts always need to trend upwards and such “stronger” battles need to be made available consistently or the path of least resistance is to always take the weakest battle and/or not progress, which does not serve anybody. The last score update currently broke this for people at the extreme high end by removing the availability of about 95% of their “peers” to fight by saying they are now comparatively “weaker”. Recommend lowering the amount of score differential needed at an MSP ~13k+ points for a team to be considered a “peer” or “stronger” for more consistent payouts at the near-cap to bring back the amount of options that give at least an “average” payout (~1.6k gold/50 PvP points) down to the high 11k/low 12k point threshold or so.

OR, basically

^^^ This. This is currently broken for the new score calc, for players at the very high end, because too few players are as close to the score cap as necessary and most likely never will be to have a matchmaking pool where you don’t feel consistently penalized.

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How many kidneys would I need to sell to reset Silver Necropolis to level 20?
PvP points should be the same for everyone
PvP Etiquette Questions
#30

I can only SS what’s in my match pool. 🤷
Since then I’ve had a few over 2k base gold. But it’s seriously only in 5% of my matches.
At the most I’ve had 4 out of 90 where I got 2k base gold instead of 1k-1.3k…i haven’t saw a 50 point match at all though.


It feels like I’m constantly doing 2 trophy matches now which is the least efficient way to play Ranked PvP.
(My first match this week was a loss. Because RNG.:roll_eyes:)

#31

@Mithran and @Fleg
I had an easy defense set up without the hero in it before.


Now I’m going to use this. Maybe having a max team score defense will change my match ups?
I’ll also advise everyone on my discord server to do to same to help the PvP pool.
You both are welcome to join it. Because unfortunately, history tells me we’ll have to figure out a way to beat the system. Because the system won’t be in any hurry to listen to the woes of “not enough gold”.

#32

Ah, okay, I thought they would only work till the next weekly reset.

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#33

Yes sir.
I just looked to see if still says how many days the tasks last and it does. Figure we finished Red a hour after weekly reset. And we still have this many days left.


They aren’t even either. Since we went from 2, to 3, to 5, and then 6 finished tasks a week. They are all staggered. And going to be a huge pain in the :peach: to unstack. :roll_eyes:

#34

It all sounds like too much work tbh. For those players who are super into PVP maybe easier for them to simply stop upgrading kingdoms wherever possible for awhile by not traiting some troops or something.

#35

Just had my second loss of the week.
Noticed the change to lost points as well. :roll_eyes:


If I lose a 3 trophy match. I lose 1/3 of the points I could gain.
If I lose a 1 trophy match. I lose 2/3 of the points I could gain.

#36

I remember hearing a rumor before 4.3 was released about significant rebalancing…is this it??

I know PvP scores have been adjusted in the past, but this one doesn’t feel balanced (or at least like @Mithran said it will take too long to get there in it’s current state).

PS Happy Anniversary on the Forums @awryan

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#37

I wouldnt trust the number of days it is showing. If you check other statues, it may say some bonuses are not even unlocked even tho all tasks are completed and all the bonuses are in effect. Even worse, seems like it is showing different numbers for different people from the same guild. This visual bug was mentioned a while ago but never addressed.
So whether the bonuses stack, or reset at weekly reset, or last for 7 days, is unconfirmed

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#38

I confirmed it ages ago when they could expire. They definitely do stack. It’s possible the number of days aren’t accurate. Something to check on Monday… Or

Sirrian could just make it easy on everyone and keep it fair so we don’t have to figure out work arounds for a broken system.

The “balance should be this”.

1 Trophy Match - 1k-3k less than your power level, 500-1k gold
2 Trophy Match - your power level, 1k-1.5k gold
3 Trophy March* - Above your power level, 1.5k-2.5k gold

If your at Max power level then 3 trophy matches should always be 2k gold. Zero fluctuations. Matched up constantly with those at Max as well or 1k below. Still 2k gold though. People shouldn’t be punished for maxing kingdom stars.

@Sirrian you’re probably worried about too much gold in the economy. Well, right now I have keys just collecting dust from all our LT. That gold we spend on LT will eventually go to Factions. As soon as more than 2 Factions are possible to get 2500 on without spending 2-3 million gold on the hoard quality. That seems really unreasonable when I’m making half the gold amount of someone 700 levels ahead of me who just doesn’t complete all the tasks that week.

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