Yikes. That’s the preview stream for the upcoming faction that people are already angry about, design wise. That’s…extremely ominous.
At least it’ll be fun watching people sabotage their beta applications.
Edit: just noticed you said by, not on/during. Hopefully it’s an unrelated controversy.
I forgot about that lol. I got it mixed up with the NDA I did have to sign pertaining to the contract work I was doing …
I suspect that beta testers feedback is largely ignored except perhaps regarding bug identification. Perhaps difficulty reduction in explore may be a very rare exception. Delve no doubt received similar feedback. So my take is that beta testing is mild mannered bug reporting (sometimes acted upon as Taciet pointed out), constructive event and game mode criticism/feedback (almost universally ignored). It must be incredibly frustrating to make constructive criticism and see it ignored when the criticised content goes live and then receives universal condemnation like factions have. My take on this is that beta testing is largely cosmetic and an attempt to convince us that our opinions matter. We of course know that our opinions don’t matter whether we articulate them pleasantly (Saltys definition of “constructive criticism”) or in warranted outrage (Saltys take on “negative…helps nobody criticism”). The nett result is always the same regardless of how “constructive” we are; the only consideration is profit. Player satisfaction is a trifling irrelevance and a rehashed beta test program is a mere smokescreen trying to mask that. Testers should be on the payroll; not be exploited as “free labour”. Kinda says it all about the true focus of the game as a whole. We’ve got enough cosmetic pets, don’t apply to be another one.
reading comments, I understand more and more that there will be a current name from beta testers, well, pets are still possible who will nod in agreement
to some extent, saying that the project is degrading in some way, since it’s not an MMO or AAA game, it’s just hard to add something new here, the game is over 5 years old and every year the changes, but only for the worse, and all because of what? due to the fact that the developers do not listen not to the players, not to the beta testers and as a result a lot of errors, bugs and glitches, I’m sure that in the end the developers will make a game for themselves where they will play alone
I was in the game for 2 years and saw a lot, but recent changes with epic quests have really undermined my faith in the game, I see one thing that will finish me off soon, and I will leave as many have done did it adding epic tasks, they made boredom, dullness, monotonous movements from the game, wait and see, but I’m one hundred percent sure that soon there will be a roll of the field if the developers do not start listening to players and beta testers
Good luck to anybody who applies for beta status (Beta Boss?).
I just hope the opinion of the next wave of testers is appreciated more than the previous waves - flashback to epic tasks and most people’s dislike of them, including several well known beta testers.
This is rich! I had to comment!
You are closing down a beta program that hasn’t worked since probably its inception. You know why? Because you don’t listen to the players anyway! Is that not constructive feedback? I think that’s the most constructive feedback anybody could ever give you, is that you don’t listen anyway. You said in your OP that most of your testers moved on… gee, I wonder why that happened.
You just want to take away forum badges and give new people the opportunity to suck up and be ignored. Yes, that is how little faith I have in you as game developers. I’m sure you’re all great people outside of Gems of War, but as game developers you have shown you are manipulative, uncaring and greedy. Everything you do is to make an extra penny. Look at Path of Exile. They’ve kept the lights on because their game is content rich and solid. Your game revolves around matching 3 for no reward, or at best, matching 3 to buy some energy to match 3 some more in an event that isn’t going to give anything worthwhile to begin with.
And I didn’t even need to be accepted into the program to be ignored! Look at that, I’m a beta tester.
Here’s an attempt at a reasoned take of how I read beta testers have described how they are used:
What players think beta testing is: Beta testers are given the next version early and tasked with finding bugs and giving feedback so there are no major mistakes in the release. Troops and upgrades are available so testers can make sure it all works coherently and find problems with new mechanics.
What beta testing is: The devs pick and choose specific pieces of the next update that they aren’t sure about, and let beta testers try them. This does not always include new troops or mechanics. Beta testers are allowed to give feedback, but usually the devs already have in mind what changes might need to be made and changes are only made if the beta testers comment within that realm.
Respectfully, I think it’s a terminology problem. It sounds to me more like a “focus group” or “user survey” than a beta test. This is why it’s been so confusing to me that they haven’t found things in the past, and now I get it.
The testers do not see the full product. They aren’t being asked to approve or disapprove of the features. They aren’t being tasked specifically with finding bugs. They’re mostly being given a preview and very focused guidance on what kind of feedback is wanted. They aren’t being asked, “Should we make a chicken sandwich or a new kind of hamburger?”, they’re being asked, “Should this chicken sandwich have pickles?” And even if their comments are, “The chicken was raw, more care should be taken when preparing it”, that wasn’t the question so that feedback is not always acted upon.
On top of that, it appears there is also strong tone policing on the feedback. If you can’t build a “compliment sandwich”, where you start with something good, say your bad thing, then end with something good, you’re out.
I don’t think this is a very effective process at all, and it feels like a more complicated version of posting a survey after a preview stream where you get special gold star stickers if you’re always positive.
Beta = The final stage of testing before release. The beta build of a game/app/software is feature complete, it is rare for anything new to be introduced or scrapped and only minor changes are made. This is a polishing stage, the major pieces are all locked in.
Beta testing is used to gather user feedback and for final balancing before release.
Let me give another example of useless feedback vs constructive criticism:
Useless:
This update is the worst I can’t believe you even thought we’d want this, the Devs are completely incompetent. I’m quitting.
Constructive Criticism:
I tried out the XYZ feature and I really didn’t like it. I found it too difficult/too time consuming/I didn’t think the rewards were worth the effort/I didn’t find it fun/it’s not something I would play/use. The reason I say this is because… insert reasons here
Not necessary but bonus points if you contribute a suggestion to improve the feature without completely scrapping it or needing it to be drastically changed.
Explanation:
My example of useless criticism above doesn’t tell us why you don’t like the update, it doesn’t offer any insight at all. It’s an ultimatum, scrap the whole thing or I’m quitting. We can’t use this, we know from this feedback you think we suck but it doesn’t tell us what you didn’t like or why you didn’t like it - we can only make assumptions and that’s not why we asked you to participate in the beta. We asked you so we could get feedback we can use.
In the example of constructive criticism you still get to tell us what you think even if it’s negative: “it’s boring”, “it’s too hard” “it’s a waste of my time” BUT you also explain WHY you feel that way. This is actionable feedback.
Beta testers aren’t asked to compliment us or the things they’re testing.
Here’s another example of useless feedback:
OMG you’ve done it again you Devs are the best I love you, number 1 fan yay!
^ Ok, so you like the features you’re testing. But we don’t know what you liked especially or why.
This isn’t useful feedback.
We’re not asking you to kiss our butts if you participate in the beta. We just expect our beta testers to be able to participate in civil discussions.
Just to get the beta access in the first place requires the kissing of 
. 
(I agree with everything you said. But you set yourself up at the end.)
Beta = The final stage of testing before release. The beta build of a game/app/software is feature complete, it is rare for anything new to be introduced or scrapped and only minor changes are made. This is a polishing stage, the major pieces are all locked in.
Beta testing is used to gather user feedback and for final balancing before release.
QFE. I cannot put enough shiny Broadway-style lights or big giant neon arrows pointing at this statement.
A long time ago, on a whiteboard/paper far, far, away, the I+2 designers met with 505. Negotiations were made and there was an agreement between the two parties on the roadmap for the game. As part of the agreement, 505 provides support and funding for GoW to develop and implement the updates needed to make that roadmap a reality.
By the time an update makes it to beta, months of time and manpower have been invested in that update, which costs very significant amounts of money. Stakeholders that have invested those resources in developing that update are expecting a finished product to be released, as contractually agreed upon.
Guess what would happen if I+2 backed out on an update based upon user feedback?
(a gross oversimplication)
I+2: “Hey 505, we beta tested this new update that we promised to produce for you. Based on user feedback on our forums and social media channels, there’s a lot of negativity about the update. So, we’re deciding to abort the update because we believe that’s the right thing to do.”
505: “Thank you for your thoughts and honesty on the matter on what the right thing to do is. We believe the right thing to do is to end support for your game. Oh, yeah. We’re also suing you for breach of contract and other related damages as well.”
(end)
Beta testers aren’t ever going to cause an update to not happen because of controversial or negative feedback. What they can do, is exactly what Kafka posted about. That controversial update can be polished so that it might be as “bad” as it could have been. That’s what type of feedback that the devs are seeking.
Yes, this can be the proverbial “polishing the turd” (before anyone else says it) regarding a highly controversial update.
But, at least I can take some satisfaction in knowing that based upon beta testing feedback, the controversial update in question was a released in form that was superior than it initially appeared on beta. (Example: the public discussion about Epic Tasks for 4.7 is normally a thing that happens on the beta forums about updates, which the open forums generally never see.)
I think a better angle for me to go at this is to point out what I think is missing:
Beta testers should get to see and test out new troops, classes, factions, etc. pre-release. I don’t give a snot if they can provide strong feedback. But let’s face it:
Things like Barbarian or “ability doesn’t work as written” glitches are just sad in a 5-year-old game. They’re the kind of thing a beta tester would pick up on in 10 seconds. They’re also the kind of thing that for 2+ years, nobody on the dev team has been able to understand why “we change the game after QA approves it” is tied to “there are bugs that QA didn’t see”. Let beta testers be your QA.
(Also this is the end of me poking my head in this thread, I don’t want to drag it down too far, but I think the above is very important.)
What if we had an Alpha Testing group rather than Beta Testers? Or if the dev team made surveys way in advance on features or things thta the players would like to see and took a poll/vote, so it could help better prioritize what features players want. Or perhaps just say we were thinking of doing features XYZ, which do you guys like the most for us to work on next?
I feel like it’s worth clarity on what players want and what players will get. There’s sort of two branches to what people expect out of a “beta”:
GoW wants the (2) style of beta, and this is what Salty is explaining is happening. GoW doesn’t and hasn’t ever had the (1) style of beta, and I think every dev representative who has ever appeared has made it clear we won’t and can’t get that style.
The briefest possible point I’ve been trying to make with too many words is that I feel the scope of what qualifies as “new features” is too specific, and should include a lot more.
Betas are generally a waste of time … if you have end users in it, they will tend not to report things that benefit them. And they do not go looking for bugs … or dont know how. Or they cannot explain it in an actionable way.
AAA games have extended periods of beta and are full of bugs on release.
This is pretty much what I do every time something is released already. I like to think my bug reports are pretty accurate and understandable as well. I am not sure why you think players who are not end users would be better. New and even most mid-game players don’t know the features of the game or have experience with all of the mechanics and interactions.
EDIT - I just realized you meant end users instead of end game players. I apologize @Lorien1973
On to other things. Not going to lie, unlike many of the people posting here, I want in the Beta and I am excited for it. I like testing bugs and features. I already do pretty much the same thing after release as I would do there with the exception of posting on the forums instead of discussing it among my alliance. I am not sure I have much of a chance though. I avoid anything but bug reports because feedback threads just get filled up with the same people complaining rather than giving serious feedback.
Unfortunately this thread has become an example of why so many of us avoid the forums even after it being pointed out that it is that type of behavior they specifically don’t want. I know people that refuse to even make accounts because every other thread becomes a “who can complain about the same thing for the 30th time on the 30th post this week” thread. The constructive criticism and actual feedback gets drowned out in the negativity and when that negativity gets pointed out they just double down on it so most don’t bother.
Didn’t really say that. I’m saying that human nature will make users less likely to report bugs they can benefit from.
I’ve rolled out processes and software for global companies and I can guarantee this always is the case.
Much like reviews online, they tend to be more negative when it errs against them. You will rarely if ever see a complaint saying “got twice as much as I ordered!”
This alone is going to make the Beta Program better for everyone (devs included). Many know how to interview well, but it’s all about what’s done once you’ve got the job, so having a rolling roster is a great idea.
P.S. Admitting here and now that I would like being called babe, but any term of endearment will do. 
It has been proven time and time again that regardless of how the feedback is presented, the general response from you guys is stony nonplussed silence. Generally a disgruntlement will be initially presented according to your version of “constructive feedback”. Silence from you. Others then chip in with positive suggestions to improve the original disgruntlement game wise and what happens? Not even a whiff of recognition or acknowledgement from you. Complete disregard for your playerbase. Would you consider such ignorance to be constructive? Community frustration rises in the absence of ANYTHING from you and things can decline into hostility as a result. So you are playing a pivotal part in how criticism and/or feedback are presented in your forums. Yes people such as myself do sometimes protest negatively especially about things like factions and the unhealthy play requirements they promote. Not only do you respond with silence, you then change original faction layouts etc to make it even harder for those of us who haven’t completed the faction. You respond to feedback about faction events being unhealthy by more silence and then increasing the minimum number of rooms required to complete a level! Is it any wonder that people feel you don’t listen and don’t care and become more vociferous as a result. You guys can easily prevent any escalation into hostility by engaging the community rather than flagging or deleting posts. It’s high time you took some responsibility for your part in creating the disparaging comments you find so offensive, instead of pointing the finger at those who end up making them. Personally I think saying someones contribution is “useless” is disrespectful. It seems you care more about the delivery than the content.
Maybe they’ll get constructive feedback when they get things right for once
That last class release shows they’ve hit rock bottom
I guarantee any single one of us would have lost our jobs 100 times over if we had their track record
How do u constructively say, you are putting in no effort and not learning from any mistakes
Are you for real? You’re truly going to argue it’s the dev’s fault that some people just can’t help themselves from being disrespectfully negative, downright bullying or just plain insulting constantly? (I’m sorry officer, it’s not my fault that I brained him with a baseball bat - he looked at me funny so what else could I do? He made me do it!)
No one forces anyone on here to write what they do and the way they do. Each user is 100% accountable for what they write and how they write it. No one else is to blame for it. So perhaps YOU should take the responsibility for what you say & not blame anyone else for “making” you do it. There’s always a better way to say something.
And for the record there’s plenty of useless “contributions” out there that can hardly be considered “contributions”. If it’s emotional, not actionable, not factually-based, doesn’t offer an alternative solution or it’s purely speculative, these are not “contributions” but rather a waste of time for all involved. And by telling people their “contributions” are in fact one of those things isn’t disrespectful, but rather cutting through the crap so real contributions can be considered & acted upon.