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Lycanthropy, the why and the moving forward

Ahoy, adventurers! It’s Salty here with some knowledge. (Or, you know, information, either way.)

As discussed the other day on stream, Heroic Gems are our latest feature to keep the game fresh and moving forward. Lycanthropy is part of that initiative - introducing new challenges and considerations for you to experience. Unfortunately, Lycanthropy had a few issues on release, and for that we apologize; we’re updating our test plans here to better catch future issues like this in new features.

Now, onto the effect itself. Lycanthropy is a “transform” and, as such, it will act like other transforms in the game (e.g. Possessed King and Night Hag) with regards to stats and traits. Lycanthropy is a little bit unique in that it’s NOT an entirely negative status effect in every case, and that’s by design - we believe it’s great to be presented with tools that require a little consideration in their use - for example, cast on a powerful troop it can be debilitating to an enemy team if it triggers, but cast on a weak troop it can backfire and slow you down on your path to victory.

In the case of Essence of Evil - which is something we know you’ve brought up - it’s actually helped provide some balance to the item without us having to adjust mana costs or other spell effects, which was why it wasn’t added to the “naughty list” in the last balance update.

I hope this has answered some of the questions you’ve been asking about what we intended with Lycanthropy.

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Keep up the good job and don’t do anything to lycanthropy. It’s perfect the way it is!

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I have heard that a lycanthroped Valraven does not provide sigils on defeat (same goes for gnomes and their treasure). Is that correct, and is that intended?

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It’s true for Valravens, as far as I know. Dev response was “just don’t trigger Lycanthropy on a raven.” Not sure about Gnomes, although I know ones in the Vault DO drop loot regardless.

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So, it ‘will’ halve the affected troop level?

When is ‘will’?
:relaxed: :vulcan_salute:

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It’s really hard to not trigger lycanthropy if, as I have also heard, those gems trigger when removed (eg Abhorath) or cannot be converted (eg Qilin). I suppose I can make my peace with the fact that they trigger when exploded, but as of right now there appears to be no way in the game to not trigger that effect.

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Luckily, ravens are invulnerable to Lycanthropy unless stunned. If you’re using something that stuns a random enemy, though… RIP .-.

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Weird this comparison is made when it isn’t true. Transform, cast by Possessed King and Night Hag, halve the enemy stats. Lycanthropy does not. So, is this a bug then? Or, is lycanthropy not actually like “transform…with regards to stats”?

What about the valraven issue? Transforming a raven, killing it, then winning a fight yields sigils. Lycanthropy on a raven, having that raven become a beast, then killing it, then winning the fight, does NOT provide sigils. So, is this a bug despite the devs saying it was intentional? Or, is lycanthropy not like transform even though you just said it is?

There is also the gem converter bug. Converting purple gems should include lycanthropy gems. Consider Finely who converts skull gems: it includes doomskulls.

Personally I dont mind the idea behind Lycanthropy, or the nerf to EoE. Lycanthropy is just released poorly. If the intent is to have lycanthropy behave like transform, then it’s quite broken still. This post is weird.

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Here’s a possibly unintended side effect of lycanthropy - it has finally convinced me to give up the game. “Keep the game fresh and moving forward”? Seriously? You moved it forward from the trash bin directly into the dumpster fire. Enough is enough and lycanthropy is too much.

I will miss the community. I will not miss what the game I loved has become.

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

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It’s actually quite in line with previous instances of ‘addressing’ player concerns over the years, while omitting to address the actual questions/issues raised by said players…

…hopefully the new mods won’t be perpetuating this approach and will actually address the issues/what is being asked?
:crossed_fingers: :relaxed: :vulcan_salute:

But this post kind of addresses the issues, but also introduces more issues. I’m more confused now.

Due to the bugs on release, testing will be improved for new features. Awesome! But, lycanthropy is still bugged so what is happening right now?

Then the post compares lycanthropy to transform which it clearly isn’t. That means the devs lied previously, and all the bug reports labelled not a bug need to be revisited. Or, this is a change of design (ie, lycanthropy originally wasnt meant to be like transform but now they want it to be), in which case, there are even more bugs right now.

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It addresses and attempts to pacify how players feel about the feature, without addressing the reasons brought up by said players that causes the negative response towards the feature.

These pseudo-answers are not new and, as per what you mentioned, tend to raise further questions while doing little to demonstrate that the company acknowledges/understands the actual issues brought up by the players…

…and then a few years down the road we end up with e.g. the doomed weapons ‘fix’, that illustrates the communications shortcomings.
:man_facepalming: :relaxed: :vulcan_salute:

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When the AI troops are over level 20. (Like 80% of the game is designed now.)
The effect is always DEBILITATING.
Since Human players are capped at level 20.

Can your team truly not see that?
Or have they all been gas lighted by 505 Games and their LIEcantrophy effects?

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@Grundulum we are aware of this issue and our team are looking into it.

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And applying Curse first to the targeted opponent more than makes up for the addition of lycanthropy to EoE. Thank you. :smile:

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except that now that means EoE can immediately force lycan on a Raven & cause you to lose sigils.

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This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

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That is a very unkind paraphrasing.

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As discussed the other day on stream, Heroic Gems are our latest feature to keep the game fresh and moving forward. Lycanthropy is part of that initiative - introducing new challenges and considerations for you to experience.

I think the framework that has been built around heroic gems and its integration to campaigns is certainly promising.

Unfortunately, Lycanthropy had a few issues on release, and for that we apologize; we’re updating our test plans here to better catch future issues like this in new features.

Can you be more specific as to what changes are being made to improve testing for such new features?

Now, onto the effect itself. Lycanthropy is a “transform” and, as such, it will act like other transforms in the game (e.g. Possessed King and Night Hag) with regards to stats and traits.

As pointed out above, this is inaccurate, because TPK’s transform also halves the level of the transformed troop, whereas lycanthropy does not.

Lycanthropy is a little bit unique in that it’s NOT an entirely negative status effect in every case, and that’s by design - we believe it’s great to be presented with tools that require a little consideration in their use - for example, cast on a powerful troop it can be debilitating to an enemy team if it triggers, but cast on a weak troop it can backfire and slow you down on your path to victory.

I agree that status effects (and, indeed, abilities) which require careful consideration before use are valuable and important to the game. Lycanthropy is not one such effect. You describe lycanthropy as a tool, as an effect that can be cast, which implies some form of control. This is inaccurate. A significant source of lycanthropy is from lycanthropy gems on the board. When matched, exploded, destroyed, or even removed, lycanthropy is triggered on a random troop. This subverts any strategic use that such gems may have because their target cannot be specified and because their trigger cannot be removed through most usual means. (Lycanthropy gems can indeed be removed inertly if they are overridden by created gems.)

In summary, the current implementation of lycanthropy (random, negative effect—bad) is at odds with its intended behavior (strategic tool—good). This disagreement will only be exacerbated in challenging or high-stakes content, such as pure faction delves and, presumably, next week’s guild wars. To this end, I propose three suggestions that attempt to align its current implementation to this purpose.

  1. Allow lycanthropy to be cast on a selected troop when lycanthropy gems are matched on the board.

  2. Allow lycanthropy gems to be removed, exploded, and destroyed without triggering lycanthropy.

  3. Do not designate lycanthropy as a negative status effect. As you state, lycanthropy is not entirely negative, and its being lumped in with negative status effects (which causes it to be cast with EoE, Luna, or Magnus, for example) reduces the strategic decisions players can make with it.

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Lycantrophy is anti-new players. We might end up with end gamers only game. That’s not fresh.

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