Live/real time PvP


#1

Current PvP system isn’t really PvP it’s PvC (C being computer), we just fight a team some player has made, but we are against a computer not against a player. What would be awesome is to implement a new option of real time PvP where 2 players would be matched against each other in real time fight. That would really show who’s team is the best. Stuff that real PvP would need:

-20 sec counter to make a match so players don’t stall on purpose. Counter would be refreshed after gaining extra turn to make time for the next match.

-additional ranking system which would allow players of same levels to play against each other making fights more fair. When I say same level, I don’t mean they should be 100~ of each other, rather to have similar win rates and to be, level match system from current match up system can be kept but with win rates considering too.

I don’t think implementing something like this is too hard, and the impact on popularity would be huge. Of course players will be able to chose to play either PvC or PvP, and live PvP would give slightly better rewards, since it would be harder to win.


#2

This has been suggested so many times, but it really does need to happen eventually.

It will basically make this game perfect. xD


#3

Cause nothing makes fun games better than all the cheesiness that comes with the abusive/exploitive nature of try hard PvP…

Now before i get yelled at i’d like to mention that i am not against a real PvP option, as long as it stays an option.
Everybody who wishes such an option just has to be aware that this means elimination of the majority of beloved team setups that work currently and are fun, as they won’t stand the test of the exploitive human nature once it comes to PvP.
Say goodbye to the majority of your fun teams, and welcome half hours of permanent mana denial, races to mass silence, and triple frozen/silence/drain/whatever cheese, wombo combo cheapness and the likes.

I am a quite competitive PvPer at all sorts of games, good at many, great at some and really bad at many others that i still enjoy a lot pvping in, but generally when it comes to online ccg-kinda games real PvP mostly leads to a vast reduction in possible card/troop compositions and playstyles.
There are many games out there that have wonderful concepts and ideas, brilliant designs, but get reduced to whatever cheese gets players to the win fastest and easiest.

Imagine the Goblin situation (which is so much less worse than it is often made out to be on these forums) multiplied by … yeah, well ten or something… you know… well what i mean is much much worse than the currently perceived goblin situation.

Traited Celestasia teams annoy you now? Then imagine you can’t pick a counter team and an illspirited exploitive player on the other side of the board…

It will also be a balancing nightmare for the Devs further decreasing viable team options.

Edit: Just so it doesn’t get lost in my wall of text, i am not actually against real pvp as an option, i am just thinking people imagine real pvp much more enjoyable than it will actually be.


#4

On the end I added that players should be able to chose to either fight computer or a player, basically we would have 2 types of battles. Yes it would shift to meta cards (isn’t it shifting already?), but it would still enable people to have more fun. Beating computer is nice, but beating a real opponent makes you feel good. You say half hour of permanent mana denial, and race to silence first, I say oh boy, where can I sign in :wink:
That’s the beauty of it, out playing the opponent, by what ever wombo combo you got prepared, contraire to his wombo combo with which he plans to squish you. That’s what PvP is about, that’s what makes it fun.


#5

I’d be okay with live pvp as a purely optional / novelty feature, but not if it ever became the default way to play the game. Too many potential frustrations. That’s one of the reasons I gradually quit playing Hearthstone, and gravitated to GoW instead. I prefer the single-player pvp of this game, and find it much more relaxing.


#6

Of course PvC would remain when PvP is implemented. At most it would be a minigame to a kingdom. In regard to team setup, I think it will make things more interesting. In current PvP there are many single builds that can be used to always win against the AI regardless of the team composition. If a real PvP option was added, it would force the creation of multiple builds.

I see the real PvP minigame working like a quick drafting system in this order:

  1. Pay 10,000 gold to enter.
  2. 8 win double elimination style just like Arena with rewards increasing accordingly.
  3. Find a random opponent, level won’t matter too much.
  4. A person at random is chosen to go first.
  5. A draft starts with each player picking one troop at a time with the first turn person picking first, leaving the non-1st turn person to have last pick advantage. Banner is picked after all troops are picked. All troops are level 20 fully traited. Kingdom bonuses are based on who has more bonuses, of which both players will have during battle. The only limitation would be only owned troops can be picked and hero stats would be based on level and class, but still maxed in regard to traits and class level.
  6. Battle. 20 second time limit per turn refreshed by each extra turn. A missed turn will be taken by AI. Missing 3 turns is auto-lose.
  7. Repeat until you lose twice.
  8. Claim reward based on wins.

When will we have a Real Time PVP game's mode?
#7

The current codebase is using Adobe Air, which is a notoriously bad platform for real-time PvP. AAir can’t even draw the screen properly on a high-res (2560x1440 or higher) Android-platform display. The devs would probably have to build from scratch using a different game engine, e.g. Unity (what Hearthstone uses), and that’s a LOT of work. So you’re talking at least a year out, maybe longer.


#8

Well that is definitely more interesting than a basic 1v1 preset team vs preset team real pvp mode.

The fact that an actual draft is involved with the chance of reacting to the picks of the opponent and not simply being blindsided by an opponents preset team that just so happens to completely counter your own preset team or vice versa, would eliminate many of my reservations towards real pvp in this game.


#9

Devs have said real time PvP probably won’t ever happen, and if it does it is still years away. Real time pvp just won’t work with how this game plays. It’s an idea many people want, but it just won’t work. It wouldn’t be two players strategically fighting turn after turn, it would one a very one sided game where the luckier person always wins. Whoever gets that first exploder troop filled, or whoever gets the lucky cascade that fills the whole team.


#10

The only way I could see PvP working out is if both players had their entire teams permanently Frozen from the start.

Otherwise board control WILL be abused beyond reasonable fairness.


#11

Or you can just lead with a fully traited Bone Dragon.


#12

Yeah, I’m not sure how that’d help unless both teams were running 4 Bone Dragons. :hushed:

The issue isn’t skulls, it’s 4+ matches and board control. It wouldn’t be surprising to see an opponent play 20+ extra turns in a row due to excessive gem generation with random skulls sprinkled in as their method of damage. Which is why removing extra turns altogether is the only way I could imagine PvP actually doing even half well.

(Not to mention Impervious ignores Bone Dragon leads with great ease.)


#13

If there was an instant full freeze to a team, people would just go 4 immune troops.

Also, in a drafting system, people would be able to see if someone is making a loop team and just counter accordingly.


#14

Think about it this way - we just got real-time chat. Real-time PVP is the next step.

I mean, it’s about a thousand times more complicated but its the next step.


#15

I’m with @gouki on this… PvP with picked teams would be dull and annoying, combo decks would mean one player gets to watch endless turns…

Not sure I like @Tacet’s suggestion using a draft though… I don’t like arena and this is kinda the same thing…


#16

That has nothing to do with Arena aside from the double elimination thing. All choices would be of any troop in the game and would be fully maxed. It would be a late game environment for any player in the game, whereas Arena is an early game environment for any player. This PvP system would also ensure a 50% win rate globally, so people that win a lot can be rewarded a lot more than what Arena does where win rate globally is likely 80%+.


#17

Right… But it’s a draft from random troops which is very much like Arena and the part I really don’t like…

Didn’t say it’s a bad idea, just I don’t like it… If this became the only meaningful pvp I’d be very disappointed…


#18

It wouldn’t be random. Every pick would be from any troop in the game, assuming the person owns it.


#19

The draw idea is cool but I’d rather play with teams I’ve spent tons of time building. They could certainly co-exist.

There would also need to be some way to handicap the player that goes first, similar to Hearthstone, MTG, etc., b/c it’s such a huge advantage. Maybe the first person is silenced for the first turn? Seems like that would offset board control.


#20

I don’t mean Freeze as an effect. (Which is why it’d be permanent.) I mean both sides would perform as if their entire teams were frozen, regardless of traits. (Yes, blablah, it’d make Freeze effect pointless, blablablah. As if it isn’t already.)

And how exactly do you counter first turn incentive? Empowered Mercy activates her spell, fully charges Alchemist & Valkerie, input near-infinite loop here.

Loop teams aren’t countered by anything except pure luck, especially in the hands of competent players.

Best way to avoid such an issue? No extra turns.