Legendary tasks undid the entire (claimed) point of the guild update and has made leading a guild a miserable exercise in frustration

Yeah but that’s just like real life right? We’re all on different paths in life at different times. So that’s all that is. A player has told themselves, “okay this guild isn’t on the same path as me currently in life, so I need to find one that is.” Nothing wrong with that, and usually what happens is later on down the road they come back.

It’s just like a parent sending their kid off to college. It’s human nature to carve your own path, and surround yourself with like-minded people. Even if the rewards were completely the same for everyone, there would still be a disparity with trophies. It’s not about the rewards for most, it’s about pushing up the leader-board. Which you may dislike that, but many people enjoy it. I’d stake a claim in saying it’s why quite a lot play this game. There is a competitive nature underneath it all, and that’s overall to be expected.

There’s people that want to be the best, and there’s people that just want to kick back and have fun.

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You’re not taking into account timing. The more guilds that do that, the less chance there is for people below them to catch up. There’s no way to directly compete, it’s all passive.

That’s why I say hopefully Guild Wars fixes that.

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Yeah, I don’t want it to be like real life. I play games to get away from real life. :wink:

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There have been quite a few stat guesses thrown out in this thread, that with a little research, can illustrate the problem better.

OP is in, currently, the 16 spot guild. That guild will not meet the seal cap this week, due to turnover, and it will be the sixth week they haven’t met it. Mostly, again, due to turnover.

There are only 15 guilds (on PC mobile) above this guild. Let’s just assume they are all meeting the seal cap and getting some legendary tasks. That’s 450 players total. Who are “hardcore”.

There were 20,462 (+ or - 4,171) players on JUST steam in the past two weeks. Let’s assume there hasn’t been much total player turnover in those two weeks and work with 20k players a week.

450 players is 2.25%. And that’s JUST Steam. Increase the player base and that percentage goes down fast.

Is it really intended that less that 2.25% of players benefit from capped seals and legendary tasks regardless of the rewards?

The seal system and legendary system need re-tuned to benefit more players. Period.

Also, guild management, with some kind of guild member history, built into the game, would significantly reduce guild master burnout.

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If the players behaved perfectly rationally, and were seeking to maximize rewards, the top 30 players would all seek each other out and form a guild, and the next 30 would do the same, and so on. Given the difficulties of coordinating (in-game chat is terrible), the difficulties of proving performance, and the general variability of people’s performance as their interest fluctuates, or real life interferes, as well as players dropping the game, or new players joining, the field is constantly in flux, with people slowly shuffling towards the rational distribution. This is in itself surprising, because humans don’t tend to behave very rationally.

So in my mind, the questions are thus: Why are player behaving so uncharacteristically rationally? What discourages them from doing so in other contexts? Is there a compelling reason for the developers to attempt to shape this behavior?

You’ve presented it as a given that dedication and loyalty are values that should be rewarded, but given the tone of the thread, I’m not sure that’s a widely held view, at least not within the context of the game. So what inspires loyalty in other contexts? Why do people choose to form groups with other people who aren’t necessarily as capable as themselves? Locality often has something to do with it, like with sports teams generally being based on a common city or school. The Internet makes location largely irrelevant, however.

People naturally form groups around perceived similarities, but the social features of GoW are so limited, and the ways for players to express an identity so hidden, that the only similarities that stick out are their performance. The in-game chat interface is awful, player avatars are shown in very few places, and the gameplay is so asynchronous that it doesn’t really matter if members of a guild are playing at the same time or not. There’s no feeling of community within a guild unless players go way out of their way to foster one.

I think that for the game to encourage loyalty, there would need to be more player interaction within the game, more opportunities for players to express an identity. It’s surprising that there’s as much competition between the top guilds as there is, considering how trophies and the guild leaderboard have no tangible rewards attached to them. It’s fundamentally a single-player game, and it doesn’t really matter what guild you’re in, only that you’re in one, and it’s got equally active people in it. They could have implemented the same reward and progression structure on an individual player basis, and it wouldn’t have made much of a difference. Guilds are currently just people playing alone, together. Maybe Guild Wars will change that. A lot seems to be hanging on it.

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So the option is what then to make you happy, force people to not make choices?

or have you come to terms that there may be no way to make you happy in this situation?

Serious questions, no disrespect meant.

I think the devs biggest plan for the guild nerf was to close the hole that allowed the top ~1% of guilds to get an insane amount of resources. As the devs stated many times, that old level of resource gain wasn’t intended. According to them, it hurt the game economy. So, they did succeed in closing that hole. (No matter what some have claimed in this thread, legendary tasks don’t compare at all to the resources pre-nerf. They aren’t in the same universe.)

They never claimed they would make a completely even playing field between guilds. There will always be people that want to be in higher ranked guilds even if they are already getting maxed out rewards. Some like to play with people that have the same intensity. Some resent the feeling of carrying the guild. Others just like to brag about rank. Either way, the devs can’t change that.

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Spread the wealth, that’s really all I’m asking for. This isn’t real life.

The top guilds are still raking in rewards at a much higher rate. I think you’re discounting how much sheer volume affects probability.

Some of the top guilds have not only gotten Mythics, they’ve gotten MULTIPLE Mythics, simply because they’re able to “purchase” more chances for them to drop.

This all could be alleviated by creating multiple paths to the same payout. I’d take any of the dozens of suggestions other people have given - pity timers, pay packs, whatever. Just give us all the same chance to be rewarded for our efforts.

[quote=“Sol, post:105, topic:19850, full:true”]
OP is in, currently, the 16 spot guild. That guild will not meet the seal cap this week, due to turnover, and it will be the sixth week they haven’t met it. Mostly, again, due to turnover.

There are only 15 guilds (on PC mobile) above this guild. Let’s just assume they are all meeting the seal cap and getting some legendary tasks. That’s 450 players total. Who are “hardcore”. [/quote]

Many guilds that are not in the top 15 meet the seal cap and some complete a few legendary tasks as well.

I was wondering if you’d come back to them. That explains why y’all are nipping at our heels again. :wink:

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Of course they do. I wasn’t being dismissing of guilds below 15. I was just being transparent about the OP’s guild and attempting to illustrate, in broad strokes, how few players are benefiting from the seal cap and legendary tasks.

Your point is valid, but even if you double the number of guilds to 30, that are getting to seal cap and legendary tasks, you are still only at 4.5% of just steam players. Include the rest of the population and that goes down.

Is that really where those reward divisions need to be?

Any time there’s a leader-board in any game, there’s going to be someone trying to get to the top of it. That’s human nature and should come as a surprise to no one. Bragging rights, personal goals, etc, could be any reason. It actually does matter what guild you’re in for all the reasons mentioned with like-minded goals. It doesn’t feel like a single-player game because of how much communication can occur between other players and guild-mates. In all the guilds I have been in, communication has been key. Which is why it can feel so much like family. You’re all working toward a common goal separately, but together.

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I can’t take credit for that. They deserve all that. I’m just here to help put the final nail in Hogun’s coffin. :smile::wink:

I might have said I can’t wait til you taste fart though. lmao

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Yeah @Sol’s numbers are definitely off. We’re currently 29th, are only a semi-casual/semi-hardcore guild and have made 40k per week for months.

Also, if memory serves, the Devs did 100% expect Legendary Tasks and the 40k chest to only be obtainable by the hardcore guilds. If anything, I think they’re surprised as many of us have been able to obtain them as we have.

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Yes. That is how I understood it as well.

That’s my point though. The game doesn’t encourage that competition or communication on its own. What’s there only occurs because of human nature, because of people bringing it into the game of their own volition. But the game could do more to encourage it.

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OH see there you go not using pictures again. You know what it is? I think you’re just too intelligent for me, it happens. Type slower to me. One sentence at a time.

In that case I change my answer to completely agree.

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I don’t know if it’s where they “need to be” but it is most definitely where it is intended based on past dev posts.

I didn’t say they weren’t making more. Of course, they are. My point was that the devs did accomplish what they set out to accomplish. As someone that was in a top 10 guild before and after the guild nerf, I can tell you that current task resources are a fraction of what they were. Legendary tasks have such lame ROI that it’s laughable in my opinion.

The only reason I (and some other top guild players) have an advantage over some players from lower guilds is because we still have resources hoarded from before the nerf. Hence, we’ve been able to maintain a health stash after the nerf by being frugal with spending.

That said, I actually agree with you that I would have loved if they didn’t build this game around guilds. I would prefer it if my play time and effort alone controlled my game progress and that guilds were simply social tools.

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