Pre-update: The guild stack followed a nice linear curve of donation to reward ratio. Relatively easy to curate a roster of players at similar activity levels.
Initial update: Fixed set of guild tasks puts all guilds on an even playing field with regard to rewards, Good! Reduced total weekly rewards for guilds at the higher end of things. Not great but necessary. Guild seals. Awful.
Legendary tasks introduced: Even playing field is a distant memory. The linear curve has been replaced with an insurmountable vertical line, the top of which is occupied by a select few of the most active guilds still enjoying a bounty of unlimited resources looking down upon the other 99%.
Now that guild climbing has an inconceivably increased value, member retainment is made much more difficult as players with even slightly greater than average contributions chase the promise of greatly increased rewards. Recruiting becomes a constant process. The roster becomes a revolving door of new faces. Policing member activity requires focusing on multiple dimensions with the introduction of seals. Hitting the seal target requires 27/30 players grinding their way to max, which becomes more difficult with the great rate of member churn. Missing the target decreases guild desirability, resulting in ever more player churn, creating a positive feedback loop of volatility and workload for guild leadership.
In short, running my guild has gone from a rewarding activity I could casually manage with an hour’s attention in a week to a chore requiring hours of recruiting, close daily attention to activity, the constant anxiety of potentially missing targets, a complete destruction of the sense of community in the guild, and all of this for drastically decreased rewards.
However, this thread has a lot of dissenting opinions that I respect and understand. I thought you might be interested in it as well, so here’s the link:
This is one of those issues where it depends on which side of the fence you are on. If you’re in a really fantastic top guild then your perspective will most likely be drastically different than a middle-to-low guild.
As a member of a top guild, Legendary Tasks barely make a difference. The rewards for them are tiny compared to the 1 million gold they cost (example: 4 Event Keys, 2 Gem Keys, 30 Minor Traitstones.) They are simply a way to pool surplus gold, because otherwise the only thing to spend it on would be gold chests. Overall, I’m fine with it as it really does not give top guilds a significant advantage.
I agree that the Guild Seal and Guild Chest system is pretty broken, although getting Chests to Level 6 every week doesn’t really make a top-line difference, just removes the bottom-line of Commons and Rares. I have never gotten a Mythic from Guild Chests and only ever a few Legendaries. They probably could change how Guild Seals and Chests work (like making Seals appear automatically and not having to manually collect them) but believe me, Legendary Tasks and Guild Seals do not cause a disparity between high and low ranking Guilds.
I feel your pain. True The Elders just started, but finding new recruits that are active and want to be a part of a “family” are too few. Most people looking for guilds want top guilds that hit 40k seals or they’re not interested. It may take a while to fill all 30 slots, as well as taking longer to get where I would like us to be. But rest assured that we will have fun on the journey. This is a game and I want my guild to enjoy themselves while achieving success.
Well thought-out post saying some things other people have been trying to say recently. I can see how it makes recruiting harder, and I wouldn’t start a brand new guild right now that’s for sure.
If the top guilds didn’t have legendary tasks, they would be alienating a top portion of their player-base. I’m not sure what can be done about this. Most of us have to play longer now to get some of the same rewards we used to get in the past. While others play the same amount they used to. It’s a pacing thing. While legendary tasks are hit or miss, I generally look forward to them just for the chance at extra rewards. Overall though, if you want to have a more laid back guild you should just focus on completing the basic tasks.
When some of the lower-level players see us getting good stuff from legendary tasks, they don’t understand how “hard” we worked to get that. With a level of luck as well. We have to complete many legendary tasks usually just to get a fair chance at something good, and most of the time it still doesn’t happen. So to all the other players out there, just remember that. If you want to take the game slower, and at your own pace while having fun, just disregard legendary tasks. They aren’t that important, and enjoying this game is way more important.
We get legendary tasks, because we play that long and enjoy it. You however might not, so that’s something to think about. That’s the trade-off, time spent vs. chance at rewards. There’s a place for casual and hardcore guilds in this game, both are valuable.
Not sure I agree re: the Legendary Task but I honestly haven’t put that much thought into it. Our guild is able to do at least 4 of them a week so it doesn’t affect our churn that much anymore. With that said, I absolutely hate, hate, hate the seals cap. It is such a poor design decision and makes it so that any member that needs to miss a week is actively hurting the guild which isn’t true for gold or trophies since other members can quickly make up for one or more members absence and the player themselves can save up gold in anticipation of an absence. As a guild leader the seals cap is the bane of my existence and we normally hit 40k seals by mid week so I can only imagine what a low or mid level guild leader must endure.
33k from everyone…with a shot at mythics. Worth it imo.
But i agree that managing a guild right now is brutal. Its why i refuse to make my guildies do more than play. I dont set reqs beyond actaully it showing your playing and doing something. We hit 20k seals sometimes…most times just 10k and our tasks are only ever getting to 9 or 10. But im also not stressing. If people leave ao be it.
Well that’s because your guild chooses not to play that hardcore. Nothing wrong with that, but you can’t fault those that do.
Is this a keep everyone on a level playing field argument here?
There has to be space for people that play your game 12 hours a day, and 2 hours a day.
If you’re a hardcore player and you stick with a casual guild, kudos, but you know by staying in that guild you’re going to take less rewards. That’s fair to me. In every game players who play more, earn more “rewards” in whatever way.
I don’t think anything can be done about this, and it probably shouldn’t be. People go with whatever group they connect with.
Does the 40k weekly seals cap really matter?
Given that Seals accumulate are people really using their seals to open guild chests each week?
If a guild only got to 40k every fortnight or even every month (Mythic week), would it really matter? Just cash all your Seals in on a 40k week.
It seems to me that the cap on seals is quite low and therefore the ‘cost’ of waiting until next week to cash in the seals for guild chests is quite low.
(And this is aside from the fact that 20k to 40k levels just removes rares from the card pool - which might not even impact the chance of mythic troops - in addition to the fact that half the cards are currently guardians anyway)
For the Guild Chest, the probability to drop a Mythic it’s different according to the level. A level 6 is like a Gem key and a level 5 like a Glory key. And no surprise, another hot topic/issue of this game is the difficulty to drop Mythic which could be another reason to “push” players to join top guilds.
It’s a just a pain some weeks to complete it because of a bad timing: 2-3 members just stop the game during the 2-3 first days (without warnings) then you have to recruit new members that have already done their seals…
For the Legendary tasks [LT], it’s not a question of amount of rewards, it’s a question of avaibility of rewards. 99% of players cannot obtain these rewards and just “envy” 1% of players. If they could have some LT by week, they maybe say that the rewards are than good but they cannot have an opinion because they will never have LT. Of course, they can read the opinions of top players on this forum but how much players come here? 10%? 5%?
The LT are not that good because devs cannot give us too much. THat applies to LT, Event and whatever new rewards we will receive.
If I resume, the top end gamers are saying that the LT are not worth the price and that the middle/low tiers gamers are saying that LT are unfair because they will never have them. So let’s remove it.
LT was added to resolve one issue: top guilds don’t have anything to do with golds after the guild tasks. More rewards for golds seems to be a mistake…
I’m not sure about the impact of LT and Guild Chests on the player “migration”. But “Guild Wars” is coming… Prepare for the worst.
I’m not sure if this is what you meant but you can’t hoard seals to deposit them all in one week. As far earning seals to unlock the Guild chest levels is concerned, you can only contribute what you’ve earned for the week (1,500 max before real money purchases). Therefore it doesn’t matter if you try for 40k each week or once a month, you’re guild still has to be able to produce 40k seals in a week in order to unlock the 40k chest.
I’m honestly curious, do you have a source for that? Because on my understanding at 10K seals you have a chance to get Mythics, at 20K seals you don’t get commons (except for the Guardians) and at 40K seals you don’t get commons (except for the Guardians) and rares but the drop chance of a mythic is the same at 10K, 20K and 40K.
I think he means that at some given weeks he hoards all his seals until there is an “exclusive Mythic week” where the whole guild would hit the 40K mark and only then he would spend all his seals for the best results possible.
Yeah that was my other thought at his meaning but that is ignoring one of the driving forces of playing this type of game which is instant (or near instant) gratification. Most players don’t want to wait 30 days to get loot they could be getting every week.
At the end of the day though, the problem is as the OP said: the top 5% of guilds are continuously poaching the top 5% of players. We get top players in and in a week they’re leaving for one of the big names because said big name guild kicked somebody donating a shitload to get somebody that is donating a few scratch more.
It creates a continuous cycle where up and coming guilds have trouble maintaining momentum because they’re constantly losing their best players.
Well that doesn’t qualify as hardcore to me by my standards. That’s a little over 300 trophies from each player, which for some people can be gained in a day. So that’s just being realistic to the rewards.
We are actually in the #30 spot right now, and I know how many LTs we complete. I also know how many the higher up guilds get, and it’s fair because they play way more. They decided as a guild to be hardcore, but this assumption that we are all “rolling in the rewards.” couldn’t be further from the truth. Anyone that hit end-game BEFORE the guild task nerf probably is, but those around me are certainly not.
I mean it takes a million gold to get sometimes 2 event keys, 2 gem keys, and some minors. (as an example) That’s hardly rolling in the rewards. We just happen to get a few more rewards than lower-tier guilds. But the drought on rewards right now is so real, that anyone who people view to get extra rewards are targets. We see this being played out in RL right now too.
How about this logic? The Devs make us pay a gem penalty to change our hero class because they want to encourage consistency and immersion. Yet they let guilds operate a literal revolving door of players.
Sirrian stated in his guild revamp video that 20K chests were comparable to glory key chests and 40K chests were comparable to gem key chests. Since glory key chests and gem key chests have different mythic drop rates, many people assume that applies to guild chests as well.