I am seeing a troubling trend going on here…lots of people complaining about the goblin teams. So much so in fact that in the new green slime post even @sirrian mentioned that they are watching goblins.
Im hoping this is not because so many people are complaining about them. I face them often, not NEARLY as often as the old webby teams though. They are hard to beat but not NEARLY as hard or frustrating as the old webby teams or the short lived 4x celestia teams. I want to petition that we leave he goblins alone! I really believe they are the perfection of design that all cards should strive for. I hate seeing the nerf-calls popping up all the time about the flavor of the week teams.
I would much rather see more cards introduced that are counters to cards. How about some units that are cheap and do double damage to marauders? The green slime is somewhat helpful but uses the same mana color so that makes it sub-optimal.
LEAVE GOBLINS ALONE. MAKE CARDS THAT A GOOD COUNTERS.
I agree. Back when some of the worst (for me at least) cards were Fey we had the Eye of Xatheon(double damage to fey). I ran that on my hero to get rid of the more annoying fey cards (plus it was awesome). I like having cards counter a strategy rather than nerfs.
I think it also helps the lore out quite a bit because you can clearly see this kingdom doesn’t like that kingdom which makes the whole world feel a little more “real”. Maybe we need some knights who are tired of those darn marauders knocking over every traveler for their lunch money!
Full disclosure, I do run a goblin team on offense. I also tend to build a goblin team in any game that gives me the option to do so. I just love the little green guys. Strangely enough I am an equal sucker for angels, but we don’t have enough in this game.
Also agreed. With the new system in place that improves on team building and organization, there is little excuse not to have a goblinbuster or spinnerbuster team available to you. My construct team, for example, usually has no trouble with any team I face.
I do think that the newest troop, the slime from this week, is an effort to begin offering anti-green options, since it seems like green is quite a common transformer color. I would much, much rather see more of the same in future troops than nerfs of existing troops. It’s more fun that way! Maybe we should start brainstorming other troop ideas that would help counter these strong combos instead of complaining.
For what it’s worth, my two cents on this whole “find a strong combo, complain til it’s nerfed” thing going on: so what, you lost? Oh well, pull up your big girl (or boy) panties and learn from it! Yes, you lost some gold, and yes, gold is currently the most valuable resource. Again, so what? You probably only lost a few hundred gold, 500 or 600 at worst. Try playing a treasure map, you’ll gain that and more right back without the risk of losing it… and you have a whole bunch of those maps sitting around, don’t you? And remember that you probably won five, ten, twenty matches before you lost to that goblin team. And if you’re still sore about it, try using that team yourself.
As I’ve said elsewhere, goblins are at the higher end of the power spectrum at the moment. They are currently very unusual in that:
they are already amongst the best cards of their rarity
they already (pre 107) had fairly viable builds with colour spread and complementary spells
they now can get strong Type and Kingdom bonuses as well (3-4x Marauders, 4x Zaejin bonuses)
There’s currently no other real troop type/kingdom match up that can make a viable team that gets such strong bonuses (not that I’ve seen yet - would love it if someone can share one! Dragons are good but from disparate kingdoms… Divine troops from Whitehelm don’t get such good spell combos… etc…)
I don’t think goblins are broken - but a little over-powered, yes - their spells are all generally better than their peers at their rarity (and the shaman is currently the best under-mana-costed gem spammer). Goblins also have that very valuable ‘extra turn’ mechanic, which I think is very powerful and probably under-costed in mana.
I also don’t see a Webspinner-esque issue like we had before - goblins are showing up a lot, but not constantly. And they are beatable - though make for a tough match.
I do think they need some tweaking. I agree the best solution would be to add more diverse troops into other racial types, and mix in some good counters as well. Let’s have more viable teams that can get more bonuses - at the moment the gobbos get an unusually sweet deal from the bonuses.
I also think that part of the solution will be some minor nerfing, probably to their base stats - they do feel a little unbalanced against the competition. Let’s see both please - and leave it to the judgement of the devs to assess what needs tweaking. Call it nerfing if you like - I don’t keep that emotional baggage.
My views are not because I have lost to the little green blighters - there are plenty of immature posts and qq’s hitting this forum, that’s true. I haven’t lost or retreated a match in ages. I’m looking for variety, fairness, balance that is measurable and comparable - and at the moment gobbos feel a bit unfair and unbalanced. Just a little bit.
I do not see a problem here that calls for specific counters. I do not see a game breaking problem here and I certainly see no problem in the like of webspinner here.
I DO however see a design problem. Goblins always had a (imo) too mana efficient spell. Compared to other cards of their rarity that is. The problem has always been there. The fact that the recently introduced bonuses synergize well with goblins only makes the problem more visible and apparent.
Long story short:
My oppinion: Goblins have better spells than most if not all other troops of the same rarity.
Possible Solutions:
Nerf them slightly to match the strength of the other troops (easy; maybe not satisfying for everyone)
Buff all the other troops slightly to match the goblins’ strength (a lot harder but still a viable choice; might cause further balancing problems though)
Ignore the issue since it is not game-breaking (the feeling that some troops are inherently stronger than others remains)
My gad, the same guy how complain a lot about the Webspinner now is complaining to not nerf his fav team. I see how it is. Lol. I do like Goblins and I play 'em but if it comes the time for them to get nerfed, just gotta move on to the next pack of broken troops. The whining is so unreal.
I feel like there are two main issues that took Goblins from OK, to a bit too powerful.
The continual underestimation of the power of the board shakes of Goblin Shaman and Goblin Rocket with the extra turn. Goblin Shaman can be particularly egregious.
The +10 life. The multiplicative affect of this with the maxed out kingdoms bonus, along with the speed of goblins, is too much.
So goblins were suppose to be strong and fast, glass cannons, but now you’ve added the 10 life to them.
I don’t think Goblin Shaman should be a marauder either, but I think troop types are still evolving.
I agree to your first point but not to your second. That is part of the new system and does not concern goblins more than any other troop. You have to either complain about it as a whole or take it as it is. Reducing it to only one team and saying the others are fine is no valid point there.
I’m not the “same guy” that was complaining about webspinner, I jumped on the bandwagon because it was an out of control unit. I literally had someone in my house who doesnt go on the forums quit playing because of running into that team so often.
Goblins are FAR from my favorite team. I find the goblin team kinda boring honestly Undead Khetar is my favorite.
All I’m saying is that I feel like they are perfectly designed and should be the benchmark that other cards should strive for.
Heck that person in my house runs across them often and has no concerns.
Lastly, my post is in response to the amount of accusations about goblins being OP when in reality they are just very good, you dont see them nearly as often as the old broken teams, and they arent anywhere near as annoying to play against or beat.
But seriously, if you havent tried Undead Khetar, try it. It is SO FUN.
I do agree with his second point, Goblins were supposed to be “Glass Cannons.” Very fragile but with a lot of potential damage. Right now they are tanky as hell and can even output more damage than before due to the same tankyness. Am pretty sure no other team bonus is a “+10” on a singular stat (Besides Sword’s edge I think, but nobody uses their rather bad troops), and this is arguebly on the best one (Troops can’t do anything if they are dead?)
By the way, you know what’s the best way to stop the whining on any here and there troop? Just make the game run on the background, people won’t even notice the extra turns and are gonna stop crying over this “eternal looping troops.” Which is being pretty much the TO GO this last couple of weeks.
Elwyn would probably use the opportunity to do a Pink Floyd cover, if pink was an accepted gem colour. hey devs, leave the goblins alone all in all you’re just another gem of war
Then he’d wonder why everyone was searching for The Silent One.
If you are having trouble with the goblins, I recommend silencers and / or mana drainers. I just went up against someone with The Silent One (heretofore known as Shusher) and frankly if it were not for some lucky silence cures that would have been a bad run. Shusher charged up relatively quickly thanks to what I guess was a fairly friendly board (or me not paying attention). He shut down the goblins just as I got my boar rider charged. Thankfully the boar rider shook it off the next turn, but I still lost my front line gobby before I could get him charged yelping and charged again and it took several turns before my rocket shook it off. The king spent most of the fight shushed as did Shusher. I ended up losing the boar rider as well and most of the rocket. A series of extremely lucky recharges on the rocket kept me in the game. If Shusher had broken his silence a turn or two before he did I don’t think I would have pulled through.
Anyway, if you want to beat the gobbies keep in mind they are extremely spell dependent and thus mana dependent. Starve them out or silence them. Also their extra Zaejin health really lets them take a punch, but not much more than one or two extra ones per gobby (at level 15 with troop bonuses 10 health is basically one exra hit). If you focus your attacks you can rip through them relatively quickly. Poke behind their front lines and hit their rockets or shamans (if they run those) if you are able. A lot depends on what gobby build they are running. Shamans are great targets and their loss hurts the team’s mana diversity greatly. Rockets are random who they hit, but the damage output is very high. The computer understands putting rockets over skulls, so you will be skull starved if you don’t match them quick (not to mention constantly under Tim attack on the front line). The computer is pretty bad at boar riders however, so just be careful there isn’t too obvious of a setup left on the board on your turn. If you run exploders, be careful, you will be raining new gems onto the board constantly. It makes it very hard to control the mana avaialble and ensures a constant supply of skulls for the rocket.
Anyway, kind of rambly, but hopefully there are some tips to help peeps out in there. The goblins are very beatable (especially when piloted by the AI), but it does require a slightly different play strategy than you might normally employ.
The next patch will - probably - have a lot more content, I’d be surprised if we didn’t get some kind of explicit counter in the mix (y’know, troop deals double damage to marauders or something).
Don’t mess with my goblins == First you take away my Soul Keeper, then you take away my Webspinners, and now you’re going after my goblin build. It’s almost like every satisfactory lineup I build will eventually get nerfed.
