Improve Vash'Dagon's Devour

[Jonathan]

I made the title a little bit vague, because there are nuances to the options available.

My understanding of the current status of this request is as here:

@Kafka

I’ll put in a QoL request for Troops that devour or sacrifice allies to be reviewed for how their spells actually work and/or the way the spells are worded, but they’re currently all working as intended (apart from the fact the game freezes sometimes especially with Vash’Dagon in the mix).

• [Troop under review] Black Beast is cheating?

There isn’t a Feedback Thread open for this, only Bug Reports, and I’d like to comment. I figured it made sense to leave it open for other people to comment, too.

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The ‘why’:

I’m making this request because of an unfavorable/dissatisfactory interaction I’m having in this week’s Tower of Doom where the Potion of Shielding that I’ve purchased from Tier VI of the Event Shop, and which gives Barrier to all allied troops at the start of the battle, has made the way I’m using Vash’Dagon less effective. I now have to cast him twice to get the effect I want (including refilling his mana).

• This is because Vash’Dagon’s (ally-targeting) Devour is blocked by Barrier

  • Tangentially, it is also blocked by ally traits - Indigestible and Impervious, as well as the status effect Bless

• This actually also happened last ToD (Brown) for me, I just didn’t get around to making a request or learning my lesson

• I don’t like having a conflict between purchasing more Tiers to help the guild, and the effectiveness of one of my Troops/my fun

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Previous (similar) feedback on this subject:

@Macawi

There’s one problem that could possibly happen when using Vash’Dagon for delves; After he devours the throw-away troop and if he happens to summon one of the six Daemons with Impervious then that’s pretty much it for the rest of that run.

@TheIdleOne

Edit: The whole can’t devour ally impervious troops is a huge downside. Vash eventually summons in troops it can’t interact with. Vash also can’t devour a barriered ally currently. Its in need of a dire buff.

@Bossfrogs

After using him for a bit. He would actually be pretty cool/fun and I don’t think OP if his power was unrestricted, except vs devouring himself. His power should override things like impervious since they are your allies. Devs pleaaase.

@BruisedBull

Very true. He needs dispell b4 devour.curse should activate on it or something.

@Mithran

Barriers block him from being able to devour allies. So does bless. Black Beast was intentionally patched to dispel before attempting to devour after barrier was changed to block devour attempts so this wouldn’t be an issue. Any (already generally not very good) strategy that relies on him devouring allies to boost is completely stalled when you get an impervious summon. Don’t know why he needed another set of tools he is incompatible with.

I still think this guy should dispel then curse before devouring so his spell could at least be consistent. Yeah, that means he wouldn’t be able to target himself, but seriously.

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Options:

1. Let Vash'Dagon devour through Barriers (but not traits)

• This would essentially mean giving him an in-built Dispel before attempting to Devour an Ally

  • This would not let him Devour Indigestible/Impervious/Blessed allies, unless already Cursed/Stunned

• It could be argued that not being able to Devour Indigestible/Impervious/Blessed/Barriered certain allies gives the player the option of just dealing damage, keeping the original team intact.

  • On the other hand, this is currently already available by targeting himself (unless Cursed, which would be the same for the others).

2. Let Vash'Dagon devour any ally, but not himself

• This essentially means giving him an in-built Dispel and then Curse as part of his spell

• This is (I believe, or potentially #3) the most desired outcome by the people who have talked about this on the forums

• This option allows the player to choose for Vash’Dagon to target himself if no Devour is desired

  • This is also consistent with Black Beast

  • Sub-question: How does a self-Devour work?

• Part of the question for me here is thematic - is Vash’Dagon supposed to be the typical all-devouring worm? Does it make sense for a Troop’s allegiance to affect its vulnerability to attack? Charm ignores Stoneskin, as an example (not saying that’s good/bad!).

3. Let Vash'Dagon devour any ally, including himself

• Just thought I’d put it out there . Would appreciate both consistency-based (with the internal rules of GoW, if they can be said to exist) and thematically-informed responses.

• Vash’Dagon can currently Devour himself if Cursed, and so it would superficially seem that including Curse as part of his spell would make him able to Devour himself. The question is more, “Is this desirable?”

  • This would remove the ability to not Devour an ally and just deal damage

• Implementing this would allow for a consolidation of his spell text, since it would no longer require the whole, “Attempt to…” and “… if the Ally is Devoured” parts

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Any of these iterative options would be an improvement in my eyes; my preference is probably 2 or 3.

For this week, I just wanna be able to play my team without having to cast him twice to get the same effect I did before purchasing Tier VI.

[Mithran]

4. Allow Vash'Dagon to devour through traits *and* buffs, but he cannot **target** himself.

• This is an extension of how Black Beast already works. If there are no other allies remaining when Black Beast casts, the spell displays no target, he can’t devour anything, but the remainder of his spell effects are still triggered (full heal, 6 skulls).
  • On Vash’Dagon, this means if and only if he is the last remaining ally, he still gets the damage (no devour, no summon).
  • There is very little reason to target Vash’Dagon on himself if you have other living allies.
• Black Beast can already devour through Bless and Barrier through use of a hidden dispel
  • In this instance, Vash’Dagon would be given a hidden dispel and curse.
• It would make sense for Vash’Dagon to be able to at least devour anything he can summon himself, which includes 8 Daemons that are normally immune to devour.
  • This is one of the most annoying aspects about Vash’Dagon’s current spell. If you build a team around his spell and not just as a curse-bot, you want to build damage through devouring allies, often devouring the daemon that you summoned. Certain ally summons that you have traited block devour, making him effectively worse the more daemons you own and trait. (For example I hate that I have a traited Gartantaur when I run Vash’Dagon)

Similar to 2, but distinct in that no new logic has to be invented to facilitate it (already basically exists on Black Beast, you don’t have to have an additional “if I target myself” condition to fork into two different spell effects which I don’t think the engine is currently capable of) and that there is very little reason to target Vash’Dagon to himself if you have living allies remaining (if his spell damage won’t kill, you just don’t cast yet, if it will, then why not?). Least amount of work for the biggest benefit.

His spell text doesn’t even need to be changed at all. If you needed to, just add the words “ignoring immunity” after “Devour an Ally,”.

[Koromac]

Splendid! I hope that this annoying issue gets resolved in the Update 5.0 already.

[Lorien1973]

If a troop devours itself, does the universe implode? Seems to violate various laws of physics.