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I thought it could not get worse. I was wrong

I was very disappointed with the greed that the game was depicting before 5.5 update. We do understand you want milk your users as much as possible, but selling achievements? Seriously?

  1. War Coins that were supposed to appear on Adventure Board and needed to Achievement - appeared once (!!!) since War Coins announcement (half a year back) and even though their amount was not sufficient to get a single Warband - 30 WC total with 50 needed. But! You have imposed these War Coins right away in the Shop.

  2. Epic Vault Keys - you forced everyone to grind more and more during the Vault Weekends with hilarious drop rate, and now it is PURCHASABLE?!

And… Cherry on a pie - you totally screwed those who were struggling to get the Orb of Power with your Sanctuaries that let anyone to… PURCHASE Major orbs of Chaos!!! Well done!

By your greed you’re letting your loyal players down. And don’t even dare telling that it is not Pay To Win game.

Shame on you.

How does selling items that are required for achivements, but can be obtained just by grinding is “Pay to Win” ?

There’s no achievement like “Buy flash offer” or “Buy Camapaign Pass” etc. and even if there was one, that still wouldn’t be “Pay to Win”… (seen such in other games so…)

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Maybe simply with each new update devz would be selling achievements as well, just in order to simplify the process?

I’ll put it simple, if it is not obvious:

  1. To create, for example, Zuul’Goth you have to grind endlessly to either gather Orbs of Power, or you can just buy them and have quite powerful troop in a matter of some $100-$500
  2. Same with Enraged Kurandara
  3. Purchasing Campaign Elite pass you’ll level up your kingdom(s) in the matter of couple of months AND get the mythic either way, whereas other have to spend dozens of months to have the chance of getting it
  4. You will be waiting FOR YEARS until you get your first Warband

If you still do not understand let me know.

Ad.1 already crafted
Ad.2 same as above
Ad.3 Even if you purchase the pass it still takes months for kingdom levels to realy matter in any way… same goes for power levels, so i complately disagree with this point
Ad.4. already got one, and i’m a bit short of 2nd one

Now to clarify: i’ve been playing Gems for like 3years now and haven’t spent a single cent on game so far. Crafted Zuul more than year ago, and had enough major orbs to craft Enraged Kurandara on the day of it’s release (had to grind and wait few month to get Heart of Rage though).
As for Warbands, got free War Coins that were part of callendar once Warbands were released and got an offer from Arena for some extra ones.

You can try harder to convince me, but your arguments are of zero value so far. :man_shrugging: Why bother?

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This topic is not for you then, why bother replying here?

Very stupid point - “I’ve got one already…” not thinking that something that you were grinding for years could be taken by a newbie with money in a matter of seconds.

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You post on public forum. You should be excepting that various people will reply, either agree with you or disagree. I’m just saying that arguments you’re providing aren’t anywhere close to what i call ‘Pay to Win’.

And ? What’s the problem? I don’t mind if people put thousands of $$ to get something virtual.
That’s their money and their choice. As long as they aren’t getting any permament buffs that cannot be obtained in other way (like idk, pay 50$ to get a +10 to all your stats in all game modes for a month etc. ← THAT would be Pay to Win).

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That’s the main Pay to Win principle.

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I use slightly different definition of “pay to win” than you do.

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It explains a lot

I don’t recall ever paying for any achievements and I have most of them. I also have Zuul without spending a penny on getting orbs.

Pay to win != Pay to collect

Besides, people could already spend money to get Power orbs way before Shrines (aka Leaderboards). I won’t argue that there’s been a heavy push to monetization with a heavy-handed helping of FOMO, but F2P games have always had a “Pay to reduce grind” option.

For $8300, I could be VIP20, which would give me much more gold, souls, XP per battle. I would also get daily keys, access to a 3rd daily deal, and all my troops would start at level 15. I would also get 100% more gems every time I bought gems from the store, which would mean that I could spend less on gems than someone at VIP0. I could then use these gems for Leaderboards (Power Orbs) or to open a bunch of chests (troops/mythics). I could then grind a bunch of battles and level up 2x or 3x as fast as someone starting out, getting 3x the gold and 2.5x the souls. Even that isn’t Pay to Win since all I’m doing is reducing the grind.

I agree that the rarity of Warcoins for existing players is annoying, but nothing you get from Warbands will give you an advantage over someone else, i.e. the Win part of Pay to Win. Besides, Warbands were pitched as something to help starting players, which is why they can collect Warcoins more easily.

Maybe I’m not understanding how important having all achievements is for you but there is no benefit to getting them besides bragging rights. Just like there are some people who have yet to get any Epic Keys, there are others who have yet to craft Zuul, or get 10 mythics, or even 1 mythic, or Heart of Rage/The Sun. If someone wants to pay.

Is it just a matter of “I spent a whole year gathering enough Power Orbs for Zuul so I want everyone else to spend that long and not be able to get any shortcuts”? I.e. “I suffered so not I want others to suffer and not be able to pay their way to get something that I invested time and effort in”?

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I am mostly F2P, the money I invest is for the guild(gifts) . I remember reading a review before I started playing the game. The statement about playing without investing real money being hard but fairly doable got me to start playing. I like the challenge, it makes me appreciate everything I find/get/grind. About 20 minutes ago I found my first epic vault key and I’m still smiling. On the other hand, if you want to become one of the best in a short time, that needs some hard-core investing. As in many things, our personal goals make us see things differently…

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Banners can matter

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Sure, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say that a banner is Pay to Win.

that’s the whole point. Things you can buy with cash give you such minor advantages it’s hard to even consider them as an advantage at all… :man_shrugging:

I don’t consider it pay to win. It’s more pay to not waste time. Just think, you get an extra eight bags of potato chips from the bodega while the other guy is paying two dollars for a vault key and some gems if they decide to get in on the vault breaker deal this weekend.

The F2P genre at large has always and will always allow players who pay to advance quicker than those who don’t. That is what the business model is built off of. Regardless of anyone’s interpretation of what P2W means, GoW is only doing what almost every other F2P game is (and I’d argue it’s still a lot better to F2P players than most games).

It is what it is. There is nothing permanently blocked behind a paywall. If you can come up with a sustainable F2P business model that doesn’t give paying players any sort of advantage, temporary or otherwise, than I wish you well in your quest against all F2P developers.

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LoL had similiar(not sure how it works currently) → you could buy for cash, all stuff that was grindable (mainly unlocking new playable characters), but you could also buy cosmetic items → mainly skins for your unlocked characters… now that was the only source of cash… and they were/are able to organize official tournaments with real cash rewards for best teams…

there are 3 differances between LoL and GoW:
→ GoW doesn’t have much of cosmetic items → only things I could arguably count as these, would be chat emoticons…
→ LoL didn’t set up any time-gates for f2p players on new content (that is currently done in GoW with campaign troops/pets etc.), any player could get any new character on it’s release date - either by paying with grind-only resources or by buy-only resources
→ LoL has it’s own leagues and tournaments, which may result in best players earning real money, GoW does not. This one comes from the gameplay: GoW is RNG-based game, and LoL is more of skill-based game… it would be hard to award one player over another, when RNG has such big factor in gameplay

so let’s say there are 2 differances in f2p models chosen by these 2 companies… :wink:

I don’t think that folks comprehend that this is an free-to-play game. Meaning, depending on what you’re trying to go for, this game is much cheaper than paid games with paid DLCs and paid Season Passes.

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Imagine a game where people pay money and others do not and everyone gets the exact same thing with same effort. The game does not exist and if it did it would not be around very long. Not sure why folks get mad if the game they are playing tries to get money out of the willing. People behind the game are real people and have to earn a living just like you. I have no problem if they can sell a pet that is cosmetic for $50. Would I buy? Nope. Would I complain if I see another person buy? Absolutely not. Some folks may not have time to grind vault keys so they are giving those folks another option. I do not see a problem here.

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