Guild "agreement" in bracket1 to arrange scores

Before the thread gets closed, there are two topics that have not been broached so far on which I would like to elaborate.

First the screenshots…

I haven’t said anything so far because I expected that there would be some reactions.
I am disappointed to see that none of the so many paragons of virtue that have posted in these threads seem to have wondered

  • If the screenshots were genuine or fake. The SS posted by the OP could have very easily made by anyone who would have had ill intentions.
  • How those screenshots had come into the hands of Intrim. It seems quite obvious that they come from our private server. I suppose that it is not to difficult to imagine that no member of Intrim has ever been invited to it.
  • If it was legit and ethical, if not to use them as a proof, at least to post them on a public forum.

The screenshot posted by @Zookeeper, who I used to hold in high esteem, is clearly a call out. Even if the name has been masked, the avatar is very well known of the community of the forum, since the main use that that person has been making for many months of his ability to find data in the files of the game has been to provide the community of the players with spoilers of the troops to be released.

I am particularly disappointed that @Saltypatra and @Ozball don’t seem to have seen any problems with these unsavory methods either.

That is the main lesson that the mess of this week will have taught me.

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Secondly the scores…

They have been evoked a lot as everyone has assumed that they were the only goal of the collusion and that they had been greatly influenced, although Salty has said and repeated that the devs don’t have noticed any significant impact, which is true.

Much nonsense has been said. But it doesn’t seem that many people have really paid attention to the scores and have a realistic idea of what is really at stake.

So I think it could be interesting to give a few facts and a few data.

My purpose is not to apologize or to justify what we have done, but simply to share my experience.

I am aware that many people are not going to believe me. But there have been some rational people who have posted on this thread or who have PMed me. And I hope that the people who know me hold me for an honest person. So I think it is worth trying to explain things bluntly.

Some preliminary information…

  • For those who would be scrutinizing our scores this week, we have only had 28 people playing until today and we will probably be only 29 until a few hours before the reset.
    And objectively we have been pretty bad since 3.1 has been released with a few of our best GW players quitting the game and the others getting disheartened and discouraged. We are currently working hard on finding solutions to come back to our previous level without losing more people.

  • I am going to talk only about the scores of Anon. I follow closely MG’s trophies to provide them with stats, but I don’t have any data on their GW results. And I want to talk only about what I know.

  • You will find in this spreadsheet the weekly scores of the 20 first weeks of GW.
    Scores_GW.xlsx - Google Sheets

How many weeks have we been opposed to MG?
I haven’t got any screenshots of the weekly schedules because I don’t need them for my spreadsheets, so I am not 100% sure. However by looking at the schedules and at the rankings of each week, I think that we have been opposed to them only 7 weeks out of the 20 of GW.

How many points can be potentially gained from collusion?
By reading the thread, you would think that we have been gaining 100K points or more each week… Seriously!
We have been opposed to MG only 1 day each of these 7 weeks. Not every day.
And except for the week 19 for which we have finished 3rd even if we had had MG among our opponents, we have always been #1 or #2. How could we have achieved that if we weren’t getting reasonably good scores every day?
So how many points? Difficult to answer. Of course the potential gain has varied with the changes in the scoring system. If I refer to what the points we usually get against similar opponents, and considering that it is impossible to get a perfect score, I would assess it roughly to 20-30K points each week.

Is that potential gain sufficient to have an impact on the rankings?
Last week probably. And I hope that Tyrant are going to win this week because they have always been very good at GW and they deserve it.
All the other weeks clearly, no. For the simple reason that the gap between the guilds of the top 3 was much bigger than that potential gain.

Is that potential gain what we have really gained during the weeks of collusion?
Then again I can’t be 100% sure of the answer. However what I can say is this.
We do have gained points thanks to it in September. That many, I don’t think so. And before that, again, clearly, no. If I had screenshots to share here, I would be ready to bet that none of you would have noticed anything suspicious because the impact was really insignificant.

First, although most of the members of the 2 guilds didn’t have any moral issue with colluding and were in favour of it, a few people were sharing the feeling often expressed on the forum that it wasn’t fair play. As we considered that their opinion was perfectly valid and respectable, we had decided that everyone was free to set up whatever defense team they wished, easy or normal.

Secondly, ironically it has only started to work after those SS have started to be shared.
It makes me laugh when some people recommend that the 8 other guilds of the bracket should collude against us or when people are fantasizing about a collusion between all the guilds of bracket 1. It is just not possible. Colluding requires a lot of work and doesn’t work well. Why?

  • Communication is not easy, even between 60 people who have been sharing a Discord server for about a year.
    When you want to coordinate everyone in your guilds, make them do something or simply share some information, is it always easy and fast? Are you not rather often tearing your hair out and despairing?
    Even if our all members are on our server, not everyone reads it regularly. And not everyone even reads the in game chat.
    To give you an example, last week I sent a PM to one of our 2 champions who had set a meta team against MG to know if it was intentional (which would have been Ok) or a mistake. He read my PM and answered me…. only yesterday!
    Not all the members of MG are on Discord and I have often seen them trying to get in touch with someone to know why that person didn’t play and if they would play that week.

  • Because of a bug it occurs regularly that the GW defense teams reset by itself At a result it often happens that someone who intended to set up an easy team has a meta defense team instead eventually.
    Getting in touch with the people who have tough teams requires at least a few hours most of the time, so our members preferred to go and fight them rather than inquiring.

I would like to end up by reminding that the GW scores anyway are not accurate and fair. I will leave aside this time the question of cheating, but there are many other reasons for that.

  • The schedules are fixed and their difficulties are very unequal. The guild #2 has the toughest schedule of the bracket. The guilds #1 and #3 have the easiest ones. It has often been pointed out by the guilds on the consoles.
    I am not complaining, just stating facts.
    Intrim and us have often had our worst scores of the week against each other.
    We have been opposed so far this week to I1, Tyrant and BD. It is obvious that the scores that we have made against them are not the same than we could have made against Power Gems who seem to be only about 20 this week.

  • There are still many crashes causing losses and victories counting as losses. It is obvious that all the guilds are affected by it. To what extent? In equal proportions? We have no way to tell.

  • Other bugs are impacting the issues of some battles. Only today 2 of our members who were in a very good position in a GW battle have seen their battle ruined because matching 4 gems hasn’t given them an extra turn. These bugs are certainly also affecting all the guilds. Equally? We have no way to know.

  • I had complained on several occasions during the first weeks of GW that the scores were wrong. It has been happening again during weeks 19 and 20 and nothing has been done to fix it so far.
    Concretely when the servers are having hiccups one day, we get more battles and, as a consequence, more points than we really have gained. For week 19, there has been one day for which our score indicated that we had played 154 battles and we ended up with 5K more points than we should have had. For week 20, on one day, after a server hiccup, we have had 1 battle and 1600 points too many.
    I have submitted a ticket for the score of week 19 and understood from the standard answer I have received that nothing would be done. So I haven’t bothered submitting one for week 20.
    Once again I am sure that if all the guilds were checking theirs scores each day, most of them would see that they are impacted. Does it have an impact on the rankings? It is quite possible when the scores are close. But it is impossible to know.

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And how does one monitor espionage lol. Its just as fairly on par with alliances as far as being an accepted practice. One thing that’s shown through this thread is how inherently GW has as a competitive aspect of gameplay absolutely brought out the worst in this games community.

announcement

Dominant has been in collusion with members of Dominant from day 1!!! We provide a much more relaxed and casual approach to GW. Hell we don’t care if you participate or not. Avoiding all the drama and stress associated to this one overemphasized aspect of game play is very easy to do.

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The image was updated by the poster them self to cover the avatar as well without any prompting that I’m aware of. Also no-one (not even you), had flagged that post. And without flags it can be difficult for us to keep track of the huge number of posts that occur (especially in this one thread). These are the sorts of situations the flag system exists for.

I haven’t personally commented on these the issues in this thread because design and mechanics is not my area of work, so I am unable to provide any information about it. My work on the forums is still primarily that of a moderator.

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I really don’t have an opinion of the whole alliance thing weighed out. I don’t really care, but to say it didn’t have a measure of impact in rankings is disingenuously wrong. 30k points could easily mean 1-3 ranks on any given week and that’s 100-1k gems difference in what now with all the little economic amendments is certainly worthwhile on face value.

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Maybe at the bottom of the bracket, not at the top, except on some rare occasions.
That is exactly what I say in my post. People talk without having any idea of the real figures. Check the spreadsheet I have posted.

Your former member gave it to us. How OP got that screenshot is beyond my knowledge.

I didn’t know I should censor his picture. That picture could be use by anyone as their avatar in this forum, discord, or anywhere. Then someone told me I should censor the picture too, so I did. Apologies I didn’t censor his picture for first time.

I’ve explained the reason I brought that picture here was because @turintuor asked if it’s legal for someone to pull data from server so they can know every guild’s win percentage etc (and he considered it as illegal). So I asked him if what person in my screen shot been been doing is illegal?

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I have seen it and well its hard to measure on an individual end the measure of impact based on the presumption that only one alliance was to be in existence and 30k is a static figure. Which I am to believe is false on both accounts. So I stand by my observation.

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Right, here’s the thing. I don’t care if you only gained ten points, ever, from colluding; to me, those are still ten points gained in a dishonest fashion. Those are ten unearned points.

Using “it didn’t help that much, anyway” as an excuse is a bit like saying “I only stole a candy bar, so it shouldn’t count as theft.”

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Good analogy, well said. I would give it like again if I could.

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Looks like i spoke too soon huh? Guess i shoulda known better

I in fact DID ask these very questions very early on into this whole debacle. Except i didnt ask publicly because i didnt feel the need to. I sent these very questions to a member of intrim who i consider a friend. Should i have asked you instead? Would you have responded? If you did respond would it have been civil? I can guess the answers to all those based on past experience.

I was satisfied that the proof was genuine based on the answers i received and that persons readiness and willingness to share all the info they had with me.

Am i to assume that your claim is that the SS is a fake? Do you now deny your participation in this? I ask because the only reason i can figure to say “why didnt you all ask if those were fake?” is as a way to try and refocus the attention elsewhere. Same as everyone in either guild has tried all week. Its pretty lame tbh

The SS posted by ZK wasnt a callout at all. Again trying to shift blame… Tsk tsk
There was absolutely no accusations that went along with that post and the reason ZK posted it have already been explained.

Not sure what “unsavory methods” you are referring to but as the only things i have seen in this whole thread that fit the bill is the attempts at justification, deliberate ridiculousness of saying “what is an easy team?” or “so now we are only allowed to set meta?”, and the namecalling/general nastiness that has been coming from members of both guilds i would tend to agree.

And as for the scores… Exactly how stupid do you believe the community to be? Going 148-2 on one day a week EVEN ONLY 7 OUT OF 20 weeks is absolutely goimg to effect the final scores for the week! How could it not? And to say the difference is at most 30k is a huge load of manure and you know it so go try and sell your bridge elsewhere cuz im not buyin it

And now i am done because this is starting to piss me off…

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Lol youre one to talk… You have been name calling all week

Now maybe this thread needs to be locked @Ozball @Saltypatra what say you?

Well, you come from MG,ok.
I just give out some of my thoughts.
We,many of those object to such behaviour and hurt from it, are not here to argue about which is more correct or reasonable, but to fight for the reward we deserve, by arguing and putting stress, from those who robbed it from us.
Thats all, isnt it clear?

And what is that exactly?

You remember and know

Ok well done…

@Ozball @Saltypatra

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