Please no!!! Lol
This thread should never have been opened in the manner in which it was. Salty trolled with her thread title, it was meant to be provocative and elicit reactions so that they could then come in and hypocritically spam âkeep on topicâ when they donât keep on topic in their own topic. This was a troll post from the start and I give credit to those that have been having a discussion, albeit a heated one, throughout the thread in spite of the maliciousness in which it was started.
OK @Thevc letâs try to take it slow.
I get what youâre saying. I donât need dozens of analogies. You believe there shouldnât be a distinction between âobtained free gemsâ and âused free gems to gain an advantage.â In terms of logical analysis this is valid. Thereâs no fallacy, and thereâs not really a way to attack the logic.
But the concept of, âAre these two things equivalent in terms of the punishment they warrant?â is not the realm of objective logic. Itâs a subjective statement.
Subjective arguments have two goals. The good one is, âI want to make my opinion and reasoning clear.â People should do this! Youâve already done it at length. The bad goal is, âI want to change your mind.â People donât do this easily, and they have to be receptive. The surest sign they arenât receptive is when they try to change your mind in response.
Thatâs the point where you have to decide if you really need to change their mind, because odds are it will take a monumental effort and your efforts will fail.
Thatâs whatâs happening here. The people youâre circling with arenât dense. They donât misunderstand your analogies. They just donât feel the same way you do about a subjective analysis. You canât make enough analogies to make your opinion an objective truth because opinions arenât objective.
I get it though. I played your role in other threads, such as âDawnbringer in Arenaâ. Itâs good to fight for things you believe in. Itâs also good to periodically question what youâre fighting for.
- When I posted for months about Dawnbringer in Arena, I was trying to ask for a change that made Arena more accessible to lower-level players for longer.
- When I posted for months about Soulforge rotation, I was trying to ask for a change that made it more likely all players could obtain staple mythics reliably.
- When I post for the next few months about reintroducing event weapons, Iâm trying to ask for a change that makes it easier for mid-game players to catch up to end-game players.
- When you post on this issue, you are asking for dozens of players to be punished more harshly than the punishment many people agree was fair.
Youâre not fighting to help people. Youâre fighting to hurt people. Whether fighting to hurt âbad peopleâ is âbetterâ than the general case is a different subjective assessment and Iâm not going there. Itâs âbetterâ to fight to help people. We could use your energy elsewhere in more productive ways.
Iâm not asking you to change your mind, Iâm asking you to change your focus. We wonât get anywhere if we discuss whether I think the two âcrimesâ on the table here are equivalent. I donât think they are. You wonât convince me otherwise. I also donât think this is the most important issue facing the game right now. Feel free to move on and reopen this box the next time an exploit happens. Theyâre happening with increasing frequency so I have no doubt there will be one.
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So who think the update is this week?
Letâs take some bets!!!
Monday?
Tuesday?
Wednesday?
Iâm voting âanother delayâ but I wonât be surprised if itâs this week.
i donât see why they would do it but my vote goes for tuesday 8pm EST
Sorry 9pm since we did clock change 2 week ago 
I was thinking theyâd want to make the change to fix Essence of Evil but the more I think about that the more Iâm inclined to believe this is just how itâs going to work forever.
I donât think we need an update to fix it.
Alpheon probably just forgot to drink coffee and clicked twice on the 0 
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Itâs worse than you think, and not that easy. The game data already has the right number in the right place.
They fixed similar bugs without update
Just when I thought someone understood, it all went a bit wrong. Firstly, thanks for trying to help with the clarification of where I stand on this. You are correct, sometimes fighting your corner can promote positive change and I agreed with you regarding dawn bringer the same as I agree that previous event weapons should be rotationally forgeable to anyone who originally missed them.
The only thing you have misconstrued is what you think I am fighting for. I am not fighting to hurt people. I would rather the spenders were reinstated than have the non spenders added to the banned list, because the devs have a responsibility based upon the fact that their error has opened the door to this whole shebang.
What I am fighting for is transparency, responsibility and the message for all players to be absolutely clear when it comes to the repercussions of unfair playing conduct. Thatâs why I think the devs need to get their arse in here and explain what is and is not acceptable, because this is the 1st widespread ban Iâve seen as a gemmer, and its not founded on unfair playing exploits as such; its founded on the work required to redress the damage of spending which in turn makes it a business and finance issue. Players are exploiting constantly, as you point out, but there doesnât seem to be much urgency to eradicate gains in eg wars which have left an unpleasant taste recently. I regret having to post so many times to explain this, but Iâve been misinterpreted so many times, that I may have received hostility as a result. No problem. I am aware that the devs will not set things straight here any more than they will pursue exploiters in future, or test add ons appropriately. This game has become a bug fest and it seems that every reset there is something else that goes wrong. Troops, spell descriptions, classes, weapons etc etc, week in week out. I would have accepted the ruling (ban/donât ban) either way, based on the 100+ intentional exploit benchmark that was set. Clarity for all. The game has gone to shit.
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I see I misconstrued your goals, but I even more strongly disagree with your clarified stance and even some of your clarifying points.
Itâs not worth a long discussion. I donât think weakening the punishment is a good idea at all. It makes me suspicious your argument isnât entirely in good faith.
I do share your last paragraph though. When the devs flub simple things like text descriptions or weapon abilities, it makes it much harder to forgive complex things.
But I mean in the grand scheme I have to assume nothing about that is going to change, so my choices are deal with it or stop playing.
You still donât understand. I am not advocating either course of action, and I am not saying increase or diminish the punishment. I am saying be clear, be consistent, make sure players understand what is and is not acceptable. This is not my decision to make; the punishments are nothing to do with me. I am obviously confusing the majority here, so perhaps my articulation has let me down over and over again judging by what has come back. Not to worry.
Billy and Frank were going 100 mph over the speed limit.
Billy got in an accident while going 100 over and was sent to prison for life.
Frank did not get in an accident. When pulled over he got off with a warning.
Both were caught breaking the law. One was punished due to serious harm. The other got off scot free.
Billy canât ever speed again.
Frank most likely will speed again. Just on a different road and speed less.
My point?
The devs caused more harm than any of the cheaters by making the official precedence now of:
âItâs okay to Exploit the hell out of the game. So long as we are able to take back the ill gotten gains. If we choose to.â
Not every person who speeds needs to go to prison.
But if you send one to prison, then you should send the other to prison for violating the exact same crime. The accident, was an additional crime. Just like spending the ill gotten gems.
Would any of you want to work with a criminal who got off a murder charge due to a technicality?
The same reasoning could be made for folks who donât want to be in a guild with cheaters.
Their GM canât kick them, they didnât violate a rule in the devs eyes. Are you expected to leave the guild then? Despite you liking 28 other members and being in it for years?
By not punishing the cheaters. You punish the legit players instead. (That simple)
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So you saying billy should go to prison?
Edit my bad i tought he was dead in the accident
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Iâm sayingâŠ
If going 40 over lands a person in prison. The law doesnât factor whether or not they got in an accident while speeding. Thatâs a separate law that the person broke. (Btw the forums will show if you actually edit a commentâŠ
)
Iâm curious to knowâŠ
Did a player use the Exploit 50 times, used those gems immediately, and was then banned.
Compared to a player using the Exploit 99 times, had their gems removed, and not banned.
Again, not using the gems immediately does not make it okay. This was on the eve of a Bounty event. They could of been saving the gems for it.
Letâs talk about your writing!
Long posts require focus. You have to choose your point, state it quickly, support it, then wrap up. Doing much else tends to waste time.
Make sure your main point is stated early, and repeat it several times. The reader is going to think the thing you introduce first is the most important thing and skim the rest. Exploit this. Letâs have a look at your second paragraph a few posts back:
The only thing you have misconstrued is what you think I am fighting for. I am not fighting to hurt people. I would rather the spenders were reinstated than have the non spenders added to the banned list, because the devs have a responsibility based upon the fact that their error has opened the door to this whole shebang.
I can tell this paragraph wants to establish what you want to fight for. It proceeds to discuss how youâd like to see the punishment adjusted. So I thought your point was you wanted to adjust the punishment. Your next paragraph was about transparency, so I felt like you were fighting for both âchange the punishmentâ and âmore transparencyâ. If a reader sees two paragraphs, they expect a transition from one point to another. So you shouldnât have had this paragraph at all. Maybe the first sentence should move to the transparency paragraph.
Your last paragraph is a hot mess. Itâs an entire post with three completely different points. It explains you want more transparency, complains you have been misunderstood, and closes with a rant about the state of the game right now. It lost the path, which weakens your point. One paragraph should talk about one thing. If you put each new thing in a new paragraph it is easier to tell if they are focused.
A good writing structure is the five paragraph essay. It goes something like this:
The first paragraph is an introduction, where the main point is stated clearly. Sometimes it lists which arguments the upcoming paragraphs will make so a reader who skims the rest still knows what you have to say.
The next paragraph introduces an idea that supports the first paragraphâs main point. It focuses on this idea and does not talk about other ideas.
Then there are an optional number of more paragraphs, one for each major supporting point. They should all stand on their own. The document should still work if you delete one or more. This five-paragraph essay has four paragraphs because thatâs how many it needed.
Finally, close by restating the main idea and the points you used to support it. This means you start and end with what you wanted to say, and remind the reader how you supported it.
I sometimes use bullet points when I really, really donât want to get too verbose. I donât like bullet points to span more than one line, so it makes me stay brief. Sometimes I like to think of a big post with many paragraph as bullet points of the main ideas. Letâs do it to my post so far. My paragraphs are:
- Long posts are hard. Iâm going to try and explain how not to lose your way.
- Stating your main point clearly and repeatedly establishes it firmly.
- Your first point is often seen as the strongest.
- A paragraph should have exactly one point. The example paragraph had three.
- The five-paragraph essay is a good structure to study.
- Using bullet points is a good way to test your main points.
I also edit heavily. I spent probably 20 minutes on this post. Iâve deleted six whole paragraphs. Iâve read it four times. I moved this paragraph from the middle to the end because it broke up two points that felt related. I strongly debated adding another paragraph, and decided Iâd said enough.
Follow those ideas and your longer posts will be more likely to get their points across. It takes some discipline to know what to cut. The surest sign you said too much is if people reply to something you felt like wasnât important. If it wasnât important, it shouldnât have been in your post! That a person picked it out indicates you wrote things in a way that made them feel it was important. So donât.
On topic:
Itâs a nice idea to want a list of all infractions and punishments but it is infeasible to expect such a thing. If you want to know why, hereâs a challenge: can you list all possible exploits? Donât think about the punishment yet. Prepare a list that you think covers every way a person can do something that deserves a punishment. I assert once you finish that list, I can think of five more. And if we are âopen and transparentâ, then âthose five arenât on the listâ means âthey arenât cheatingâ.
This was on the eve of a Bounty event. They could of been saving the gems for it.
Thatâs a very good point, blurring the âmalicious intentâ argument even further.
Also, some side points that didnât make it but are relevant:
- The more things you say, the more things people have to pick apart.
- The more things you say, the less likely people remember the ones you meant the most.
- But it feels like more people brutally tear apart my short posts because when I use abstractions and simplifications, they always attack, âThatâs not how it really works though!â Sigh.
- So usually I save short posts for when I want to insult someone. âScrew youâ is more effective than a three-page essay no matter how many sick burns you include.