Dragonguard - why isn’t it focused on dragons?


#1

I was excited for this update and thought my dragonguard hero would now be even better with my dragon team (which is the only one of my old teams before I took a break that is still viable since I’m missing key troops to pull off divine teams) and I guess I mistakenly thought that there would be stuff for DRAGONS in the DRAGONguard class!

The final talent tree which should be amazingly strong has these three choices:

  1. Deal triple skull damage to burning foes (doesn’t work at all for my dragon soul team)
  2. All mech allies gain 2 armor at the start of every turn (not a dragon)
  3. All Raksha allies gain 1 attack every turn (not a dragon)

And honestly like no good dragon troops help with burning, are mechs, or are raksha

And there isn’t even anything related to dragons on this entire DRAGONguard hero?? which also counts as a dragon?? Am I crazy thinking this class should, I don’t know, be related to dragons?


#2

Yeah the talent trees seem to try giving you options to synergize with other trooptypes which in theory could work, but catastrophically fails for the Hero Classes that are hardwired by their traits to be paired with a certain trooptype.
Titan suffers from that too, making the majority of the talenttree utterly pointless.


#3

For that matter, don’t ever drink Scotch Guard. It is not what it says on the tin.


#4

If you look at the talent trees, some of the trees are shared between every other classes. Each class can use three different trees, but the tree are not necessarily unique to the class. The “Shadow” tree, for example, is shared by Assassin, Necromancer, and Sorcerer, and maybe others. Some classes don’t have a single unique tree - Necromancer (Death, Shadow, Arcane), for example, is such a class, and Dragonguard (Fire, Morale, Guardian) is as well. Some talents are going to synergize better with other talents (or traits or skill bonuses) available to that classes other two trees and the classes archetype in general. Given this, it is pretty puzzling why they went with specific troop type perks as level 100 talents in so many of the trees. Ironically, one of the best level 100 traits is simply a copy of racial generic for the hero only (Fortitude), while most of the “legendary” tiny stat gain ones are pretty bad.

Unfortunately, a lot of the level 100 ones are straight bad when compared to the few decent ones. Some classes even have relatively bad choices when it comes to the level 40 and level 70 talent slots as well.

Also, some talents at the same level are straight 100% worse than others at the same level.

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I really hope that this limited pool of trees gets expanded as we get more classes and not just shuffled about and this is all we ever get. Traits could also still use a serious revamp as well.


#5

Basically that means that Hero Classes with more general traits could potentially be good now(not saying they are), while Hero Classes with traits that shoehorn them into a certain trooptype are doomed to be utter trash.


#6

But… Dragonguard as a generalist is probably one of the best frontline classes right now. Holy Armour is great, and his tree allows you to start with Barrier, +2 to all skills, 15% start mana for your team, and triple skull damage against burning enemies. All that and more in one troop is far from “utter trash”.

And if you want to use the 3x burning damage… Lots of weapons burn the first enemy once upgraded.


#7

Well Dragonguard may be lucky with some of the talent selections it got and calling it utter trash may be too harsh. But even with these talents sounding like a lot i don’t find it remarkable, i’d still prefer a Gorgotha upfront.
Other Hero classes are less lucky with their talent choices and fare worse.


#8

Basically, the whole idea the devs had is that each class represents three things. If you think back to the dragon storyline, you might remember what it was about and how Raven was a total jerk during it while Visk - the one who taught the hero how to be a Dragonguard - was the loyal dude who wanted to help and protect his people and their eggs. The trees picked for the class (Fire, Morale, Guardian) therefore are meant to represent what the idea behind the class stands for.

As these things are shared between classes, however, you end up with a mess that seems to fit the class not at all. The thing is, I like the idea the devs had with this, as the planning is obvious, but the end result - what matters in terms of gameplay - is so all over the place that it’s hard to see that plan behind the mess.


#9

my question is and i am sure i know allready the answer : the dragon guard class doesnt count as a dragon anymore or?
or any class dont count anymore as a troop type


#10

He should have kept his type. You can see it if you put your Hero in a team with the class Dragonguard :wink: .
Yeah that’s crappy…


#11

ty yes saw it just right now thank you


#12

I wonder if surprise surprise, the talent trees aren’t bugged with the wrong talent.

Level 100 mechanist, all constructs gain 10 life. It should be mechs, not constructs.


#13

It’s not a Mechanist talent, class specific modifiers are handled by traits. Each hero class has access to three of sixteen talent trees, most of which are shared between multiple classes. The Construct boost belongs to the Knowledge tree, shared among Bard, Mechanist, Oracle, Priest and Sorcerer. Changing it to a Mech boost would probably cause some of the other classes to raise an eyebrow, now it’s at least universally useless. :wink:


#14

Yeah that does make sense, but don’t underestimate the bug making ability of the devs.

It’s good that you have other boosts besides just mech so you don’t feel tied to just mechs.


#15

Mechanist level 40 is a good one. Choose between:

  • Mentor - all allies gain 1 magic; or
  • Gift of fire - all red allies gain 1 magic.

Decisions decisions…

5Myb6x6


#16

Admittedly I had forgotten that weapons can be upgraded to burn so that one option could work for any team, so at least I’ll eventually be able to utilize the final tier.

I still find it odd that something that revolves around dragons (traits) has a talent tree that doesn’t have anything to do with dragons.

I agree that the rest of the tree is pretty great, really I was expressing my discontent with the fact that the class should be tuned towards the type it is, for at least one of the tree options. Instead of mech or Raksha it should be dragons because that fits thematically.

But it makes a lot more sense now that I know other classes share trees and that these aren’t actually unique. They took the cop out way of doing it.


#17

Most of the level 100 talents feel way to specialized. For Bard it’s either a boost to Raksha (:face_with_raised_eyebrow:), Constructs (:grimacing:) or Urska (:angry:). Which boils down to the last, most difficult to reach tier essentially offering nothing even remotely useful in almost every situation.

I’d rather see more universal talents for that final tier. Do something useful to the hero/first/last/weakest/strongest/lowest mana/highest mana/every troop. Or something detrimental to the first/last/weakest/strongest/lowest mana/highest mana/every opponent troop. At the start of the battle, every turn, when matching a specific color or when matching 4/5 gems.


#18

Let’s look at OP’s original complaints.

I’m so sorry for your TDS team but there is more than one dragon. This synergizes very well with Sheggra, and you could make a “3 dragons and Infernus” team where the hero’s weapon combined with this might actually be stronger than Sheggra’s ability.

DRACOS 1337 has this ability and is a Dragon/Mech. Looking over the Mech types, there are a lot that are boosted by armor. Could it be that this is some kind of acknowledgement that you might want to be Dragonguard for, say, GW reasons, but use a Mech team in another event? There are some possibilities here that might get interesting if more Dragon/Mech troops or Mechs that synergize with dragons appear.

OK, so there’s no Dragon/Raksha to talk about. But Ubastet’s pretty damn powerful and already self-boosts its Magic. So what if we make Hero / TDS / Glitterclaw / Ubastet"? We get 3 dragons worth of bonuses, and Ubastet’s gaining +2 Attack and +1 Magic every turn, not to mention Faerie Fire makes Ubastet’s ability “Destroy 2 troops.” Very nice.

The purpose of these abilities aren’t to make the hero into an uber-troop like Infernus that you can put on any team to make it more powerful. If “Dragonguard + 3 dragons” were insanely strong, it’d be as problematic as Divines. The purpose is to have a powerful and flexible troop that opens the door to teams that can’t happen without the hero. The things you listed mean that hybrid Dragon/Mech and Dragon/Raksha troops AND teams are more powerful today than they were yesterday. The concept of a Dragon/Mech would’ve been “meh” before this. Now we know there’s a class that will specifically benefit that type.

That means, in the future, lots of dual-type creatures are going to be more powerful than they look, and several hero classes are more likely to have a niche.


#19

Sure you can make a ragtag team that somehow utilizes most of your weird class bonuses and completely ignore how it antisynergizes with any of the classes traits types etc. But then you are better off simply shutting the Hero out and make an actual synergizing team instead.

So use an Ubastet in your Dragon team to get that sweet Raksha +1 attack bonus that’s pointless because your Hero is infront trying to utilize that burn bonus skulldamage, or that sweet sweet mechs+2 armor for that one Dragon in your team that gets the bonus while not needing it, because your Hero is the one in front taking the hits, while others simply use Ubastet in teams where it actually owns, you know non-Dragon teams.

You can spin it any way you want, the talents tend to heavily antisynergize with the concept of the class itself and its traits, obviously to different degrees depending on class, and i’d say Dragonguard is not the worst in that regard.

I agree on dual-type troops potentially not necessarily being more powerful but opening up more creative options in conjunction with those hero class bonuses, but in practice chances to do so are already thrown in the wind by the tree allocations.
For example Titan, a class heavily shoehorned to team with giants by traits(why else pick Titan really?) has talents profiting 4 different other trooptypes and none of them are currently present on any giant dual-type troop.


#20

Let’s also notice in your post you talk a lot about mythics, which are very hard to get. Great for you and your luck, grats!

Not to mention you point out the only (one of the only?) mech dragon(s), who honestly sucks.

And sheggra is like one dragon (nonmythic) that works with the burning effectively.

If you did read my full post you’ll notice I’m speaking in a broader range of dragons. Not fitting only 2 dragons…

You act like what I’m saying isn’t true… like this dragonguard class has to do with dragons (plural - typically referencing more than 2)

Edit: I’ve also never said it should make dragons insanely strong. I said that it should benefit dragons in some way. One talent tree should be about dragons (hello there are three options, one could be general, one working with the type of the class/hero, and one for duals)

I think you are twisting My words to fit your prerogative. It’s okay to have a different opinion but you should try to not sound so aggressive.