Devs, please slow down!

I think there is a lot of valuable feedback in this thread, so thank you to everyone who has posted thus far.

Our game is still steadily growing. We have increased our daily active users with each update, and hope to do so in future. There are many different players that are attracted to Gems of War, and each has their own preferred modes and play styles. On these forums we overwhelmingly see hardcore and end game players, so while it may look like one ideaology is dominant over others, this often isn’t the case. Please be aware that we try to offer new content to a variety of players. Not everyone wants to be highly competitive, or has a completionist mindset. We have a huge amount of players who want to only play treasure hunt, or enjoy other aspects of the game.

We are planning some features to make the game easier to understand for early to mid game players. This has been a priority of ours for quite some time, and is something we hope to work on more in consequent updates.

8 Likes

I tend to agree… I’ve been playing for awhile now, I’m over lol 1000 and was doing fine without all the stuff that’s been added lately including weapons leveling, once I realized that the modifications were permanent I stopped upgrading hence having like 2-3 completely lvl’d weapons, we should be given the choice to remove the upgrades and stop the dreaded random gem popping up in the worst places… I don’t even really bother with anything other then my guild related events, guild wars, towers and such… As far as the underworld in concerned I’ve still been concentrating on the main board because there’s enough to do already, I don’t stress over it, it is after all a game, if I feel like playing I do… :blush: Still they are doing an amazing job at keeping everyone busy, and the content is great and imaginative to say the least so great job just the same! I’m sure there’s some ppl who like the extras! So thanks Dev’s! :relaxed:

Didn’t read all posts, but like someone mentioned before, the massive amount of content bothers only ocd type of people. Those people who have to clear absolutely every question mark and side fetch quest in mordern games. Just play, what you like the most (brings you the most valuable ressources), than take a break and enjoy your life.

It is absolutely possible to play like 1 hour a day and be able to keep up with most important stuff and guild req.

If you want to know what is time consuming, then go and play TCG like hearthstone or eternal. I love TCG Games, but the amount of time it forces you to invest in is just not bearable.

GOW is very friendly to casual gamers. For me it is a game with the most fun/per hour faktor. And the current amount of conntent doesnt hurt the game imho. In fact i like that the devs keeps improving the game and adding new features and modes.

2 Likes

+1 for me as well. On the console it’s extremely tough to progress at this rate. The amount of gold needed for the Delves VS what’s needed for the guild has made me give up on trying to level delves. It’s not fun to do and I can’t even imagine trying for the achievement. No meta troops at level 1231. I started the game to have something casual and fun to play. Pick at the achievements while taking a break from grindy games. I was just made leader of the guild after the old one decided it was too much. A few people left because the grind vs enjoyment wasn’t there. I still love and support the game (level 1074 on pc/mobile) but it would be a lot more enjoyable to have some breathing room to progress.

2 Likes

I’ve finally had to go casual after 2.5 years as there is just too much to do now to sustain a certain level of requirements. I’m all for variety so I’d never knock the devs expanding the game :+1:

2 Likes

This post just speaks my mind.

1 Like

Tacet plays about 1 hour a day Sunday through Thursday, he streams about three hours on early Friday and the same early Saturday, before his evening streams that add one hour more each day.

That’s a total of 6+7=13 hours a week. He has everything in the game, completes every event with ease, and with as little cost as he can manage as he is only vip 6… And some of that 13 hours a week is grinding pvp, or casual pvp because there just isn’t enough content for him to stream for longer periods…

I don’t know why people that are on the verge of quitting feel their collections will suffer if the devs add more content, since quitting means your collection efforts are over…

I play a lot, and I toss plenty of support towards the game and devs in terms of dollars. I do that because I enjoy the content, and I enjoy having things to do.

I’m not putting anyone down, or being condescending, or belittling people that allow themselves to get overwhelmed. I have seen for myself that regardless of playtime, Gems of War is a long term project for us players, meaning: The longer we play (in terms of months or years) the better our collective resources, and the better our chances are of having everything. However, if you expect things to just stop, so you, or anyone, can get caught up, that’s impossible, because it will still take months, or years, for that to happen.

The game rewards long term progress, not short term. It rewards patience, and playtime, and a lot of that is because RNG can be kind or cruel, and luck isn’t always on our side.

If people would rather threaten to quit then just enjoy the game (when they can play, regardless of how much or little time they have), then I guess they will certainly never get caught up, as I can guarantee quitting and coming back will stifle that progress more than going at a pace that fits your schedule and the playtime you have on hand.

I have looked at a lot of other games in the app store, very few give you the ability to play as much as you want. There are ads, banners, energy gimmicks (and though some of you claim sigils are energy timers, well, they don’t prevent you from playing as much as you want). I see sigils as a way to allow the player to decide if they should or shouldn’t do an event. It prevents people from going too far, if they don’t have the time to play.

I don’t have high faction yet, my faction is like 2800 or so, and I scored over 54k in guild wars, so the claim us players that don’t have high faction are falling behind is a bit biased.

I get people want the game to have less content, so they can get caught up but how many years will that take?

I stand by my belief that Gems of War is a long term project for us players, that won’t change if they stop adding content…

If this is me belittling those that have less playtime, then I apologize. I don’t understand why anyone thinks, or feels, that the game should just stop, so they can get caught up. Because I don’t believe that they ever will unless they put in the time in terms of months and years playing Gems of War, regardless of old or new content.

6 Likes

I’m not normally one to post lengthy posts. Your post is a good thought out response to question why people feel the way they do. I have quoted the above.

I’ve watched Tacet’s videos and he is great for this game. I have also noticed he has like 900k glory, 10k gems, oodles of gold.I watched him once drain his entire gold pool to try and get troops, maybe fire bomb to mythic, not sure and he is now back up again at xx million gold.

Did he not once have like 100k gems. He only needs to play a little right now, because his resource pool is infinitely bigger than say mine for example. He has every troop, everything. He doesn’t need to traitstone farm, soul farm, pvp farm for glory, he just uses glory, traits the weekly troop, does the events at a tier to suit and the same with delves. He gets every mythic, he traits them and plays them the same day.

I would love to be in that boat and am near L1300.

I don’t need souls. I am reasonable with traitstones, but not all of my troops are traited and I missed a few mythics by not having the luck or resources to get them prior to 8 months ago when joined a better guild.

I unequipped armour in the early days so as not to level too quick. I don’t like poor designed raids or invasions or bounty, but will spend gems if the troop/options allow for fun. Probably 75% of either/all have been dire with the troop options. Orbs I won that weren’t orbs of growth/clans, I have used to try and short cut more dire farming.

You are maybe looking at it from where you stand, with your resource pool and Tacet’s. I don’t know what your resource pool is like, either now or but you have historically been in a bracket 1 (or high echelon) guild? Where you in the guild when LT’s provided gems. If so, your gem pool will have given you more scope to get mythics, more spare gems to manage, to more easily counter the spending of gems to either get mythics or run events. Even if you weren’t your GW gems will be far better than all put your counterparts in similar brackets.

Those that haven’t and I have been in a bracket 10-15 guild for the past 8 months and was in a 2 man guild before for about 18 months will not have the resource pool you have to more easily maintain equilibrium.

I was writing this before to the OP.

The problem seems to be the creation of a perceived divide. I am not a completionist and also think that most players on this forum are not in the minds of the developers when they do anything.

They are looking for people like I was 2 years plus back, willing to pay to seemingly progress. I have zero interest in getting Zhul and may have even spent major orbs on troop upgrades.

Casual players in any game by their definition will be casual players. From that POV if you want to play gems of war casually, you can do most things. It can be played at an hour a day, but you will still have had to have played for a long time and or not be burned out by all the time sinks. If you play a lot and some weeks I can play a lot, you still are almost overwhelmed by it all. Unless you have reached that zenith, you fall behind.

So apart from completionist arguments, there is the falling behind argument.

PVP is something I have played a lot, over 35k pvp battles and I would actually say that PVP is actually relatively healthy, and the changes recently made are good. I do have one worry though with PVP, the proliferation of Dragon’s Eye, Titan, barrier on brown and no viable counters.

Dragon’s Eye and Titan and brown and the changes to Scorpius have not been thought out, properly tested. So, I now totally avoid any team with Dragon’s Eye and anything with Scorpius and Eye and ofc Euryali. I have never avoided pvp teams before.

Dragon Eye’s needs a rethink, it was made when hero classes didn’t have talent trees and being able to fill with one mana surging three gem match and then refilling the next time the opponent goes to do the same. Spirit Fox is a very very poor counter to it as one three match again and it’s most likely full.

I am pretty sure Dragon’s Eye will need a counter and soon, because the more it appears in PVP with impervious colleagues and as Titan or Frostmage, the more PVP complaints will arise. I know there’s another mythic coming that will use similar mechanics.

I dislike losing, I like a challenge, but a reasonable one, so I will want to get the tools of the trade to help me not lose as often.

Also, the battlecrasher - could we have an option to turn battlecrasher off? In fact same with all types of gnomes, except pet gnomes and when it is event time. 50 souls? C’mon fellas let’s be serious. I don’t care if it weakens my opponent, I didn’t select a 3 trophy match for an easy fight and I’m also wary of the seemingly 100% AI transform on everything with the pain from Night Hag in delves lately.

PVP has been slowed down with all of these additions over the past few months, hero classes being the main thing. The slowing down of PVP makes the player resource pool harder to increase. If you had a great resource pool in the past, you will not be so affected - Tacet being one such example. Hell I listened to him say he had not been in the top 100 pvp for months.

There comes my point, and it certainly feels like all the stuff added is partly designed to diminish the overall resource pool the players have. We have read that the devs were astonished by how much/many resources some people have, so over a period of time things have been added that seem to reduce the resource pool.

Now if this game was not so based around luck, management of resources would be better from the player pov, but it is. A bad mythic attempt and your gems will go. Unless you were part of a higher echelon guild that built up a stockpile of gems before LT nerfs, you are usually earning less and spending more, taking into account a reasonable mythic spend every four weeks. I have never had more than 3-5k gems and after Megavore I had 10 gems. He cost me 75k glory as well. I’m back around 4k and next Mythic due soon. I’ve skipped stuff and we have had 2 GW weeks where gem impact is not as significant as other weeks.

So gem sinks came in, they generally reduce gem collections. Gold sinks reduce gold collections and reduce the amount of gold made to complete LT to increase the resource pool. In turn guilds struggle to keep players. My guild have had 1 LT in the last 3 weeks, whereas pre Delve we had sometimes 6-8 per week.

So, GW altered as it doesn’t make enough money that week I read. This will mean more of a challenge to resources.

Rewards, a thread was started about how they are counterproductive.

I agree with this re rewards, they are and the way things work, if something becomes overly frustrating, then people complain and I think the decisions made increase player frustration, which in turns leads to threads like this.

An example - the recent 4.1 room enemies. Looks like someone read the boards and setup teams to counter the players.

Frustration could end up causing more and more players to quit and I think the devs might need to consider this strategy of bumping out stuff endlessly and actually digest what a wide number of players are saying. Some of the new content looks great, but I’m still a little confused about the delve system and why it is like it is.

Each thing adds more and more time to get more and more things. If you have every traitstone every mythic, every weapon already, you still will have a challenge, but not as much as those that actually need traitstones for example. For every person sitting at the top of Smaug’s pile of gold there are a town full of people in Laketown desperately short of things they need.

If I go out for the day and the experience is rewarding, I will go again, paying again for the privilege. If I go somewhere and it feels unrewarding, frustrating, or a veneer thin way of getting my money for little reward, I won’t go back, or at least will review how I go back and what I do when there.

So the two things in my view are linked, quantity issues and reward issues.

The incentives in this game are upside down. Loyalty/VIP is not properly rewarded. There is too much randomness in the tier system for too little reward. Randomness is everywhere, maybe the odd ‘concrete’ reward of value will motivate players better than continually getting orbs of growth.

I cast my mind back a few weeks and there was an event where the troop used was good. I enjoyed it. I felt it was a challenge, but I didn’t think it was a joke, like the Marilith and Poison Master/Scale Guard/Naga Queen/Lamia crap.

As it was not extremely laden against me, I bought 6 tiers, enjoyed fights, it was good fun. Nearly every other time it is less fun and can be a chore.

So if it incentivises me, I may even spend money, if it is stupid I’ll ride my bike away. What I won’t do anymore is play a bad troop/weapon in raid or invasion or bounty. For the first time this week I skipped an event I could play in as the troop was just junk.

I don’t think the Devs have grasped rewards properly, but again I am now probably no longer the target audience.

Now if the reward system was better, so maybe we could choose between types of orbs gained from gems spent, then surely that would cater for new, old, middle aged, daft like me alike. We complete say tier 8 in raid and when we select the orb we can choose from either growth or wisdom. If we complete the next tier, we can choose either clans or ascension.

Is that not a better incentive? A way to encourage people to pay gems/cash?

Would that even effect hardcore leaderboard people? They will be doing it anyway.

Events, do them properly, provide incentive with maybe even considering troops that are decent, not tosh like last week’s hapless bounty troop. I am sure we will enjoy, maybe even pay.

So with this feeling of adding time sinks to everything, it starts to become more and more overwhelming. The greatest asset any on line gamer can have is time and resources. One works with the other.

Have resources, you might not need to spend so much time. Have time, you will get the resources.

So, the problem escalates with the haves and the have nots. If everyone was equal, we wouldn’t be having this thread. We aren’t and I consider myself way better off than many in this game, yet pondering where we are actually going.

I also know I am going to have to either spend more time, change the way I play and then decide what to do, and that adds to the feeling that I am/will be falling behind/uncompetitive.

So this thread resonates with the way the game feels right now to me and it seems a fair few others.

8 Likes

Just want to add my perspective:

I played GoW a little way back when, then ditched it for Marvel Puzzle Quest, then came back about a year ago or so. My favorite, favorite things about GoW compared to MPQ is the variety. (with honorable mention to the completely optional competition, where MPQ was nothing but mandatory competition)

If you’re a completionist or hyper competitive (or both), then yes, GoW is becoming (or has become) hell on Earth, with many, many things to keep up with, and DOOOOOOM coming which will now add upscaled coordination to the mix. That seems to be most of the replies so far, and believe me I know, burnout hits quickly and once you’re off the hamster wheel, it’s impossible to get back on. The sunk cost almost hits like stages of grief…anger, acceptance and whatnot.

If you’re not either of those however, the game is presenting a ton of content to play at your preference. A new player shouldn’t be concerned that there’s too much to do, he/she should be excited that there is so much to do. Something for everyone as it were. When I restarted GoW after the long hiatus, I still played Maps almost exclusively, as it is/was my favorite puzzle-y thing to do. Only after finding a really good guild did I start to expand comfortably to the other stuff, and it’s made the game experience fun.
Right now I’m banging my head against the wall trying to beat Delves with faction teams. A lot of forumites see that as a waste of resources. I see it as a challenge that’ll feel good to overcome.

Anyway, TL;DR: I’d rather 7000 things to do and pick out what I find enjoyable then be forced into only a couple things that I may/may not find fun, because playing a game that isn’t fun seems like the only true ‘waste of resources.’

4 Likes

As far as delves, I understand, and I feel just as confused. I saw the hoard leveling system as something to build on. Then the events showed up and it demands progression, which effects your current delve level. And now they have made it necessary to progress in a delve event, if you want to get the rewards from finishing the event. What’s the point of leveling hoards, if it’s completely meaningless above 100? and what’s worse is the gold cost involved to level for a single stat point soon gets ridiculous…

See that’s why I think people should use free sigils before buying tiers, see if the event is fun, and then invest in it if they have the time and feel it’s fun to do so. I know this doesn’t work in every case, but it can for the most part.

I used New Bounty troop, with Hound, Yao G, and the red/purple true damage troop, it went well creating green, red, and purple. I always check Tacet to see what he uses, but I know not everyone can do that or bothers to do that.

As I stated in another topic, I sometimes feel being an end game player, that I will run out of things to do. It makes me so happy when I hear about a new game mode, or new event, yet I see these posts and I fear the game will go into maintenance mode, where they stop adding content, and just do bug fixes in all future patches.

Which I’m sure a lot of people would appreciate, since they would have until the game shuts down to get caught up

And no, I’m not being sarcastic, but for hardcore players they need stuff to do, or they get bored and move on. Which is fine, and I guess that’s my fate as well, but I hope I never quit because of outright boredom.

It seems that the position is in terms of adding new game modes, events, or “rewards”, is that someone will like them. Honestly, I’d prefer most people, if not almost everyone liked it but that is easier said than done.

However, the quality of game modes has been relatively cookie cutter lately and some modes have been quite fun while others are the bane of many mid to end gamers. I think looking at why people dislike events should be considered to improve them before using them.

Take delves for example, most people used dragon’s eye or similar weapons/troops because changing the troop to a lower level to protect yourself from the level scaling was a good strategy. If treasure hoards were not so ridiculous to level after 100, it wouldn’t be an issue. You made a game mode with heavy incentives to progress with events that lock your progression, yet rewards in the chests are static and will not change with the delve level, which incentivizes the opposite. If it was more like bounty where you could choose the level and rewards were balanced accordingly, perhaps it would not burn out as many players.

I like invasions as there are personal rewards, a better troop selection and more variety in the opponents. They also don’t immediately kill you without a way to prevent it.

You guys keep adding carrots to endgamers and burn many of them out with less of the modes and events they love while adding game modes like factions that require a couple years to max the renown of the factions.

If you guys are growing, how come most events as of late are more suited towards late game players in terms of difficulty with early game leveled rewards, and stretch goals for other modes so time consuming, I could finish all of fallout 4 in that time. I have no problem with stuff that has difficult challenges with good rewards, but for a completionist this is insulting. Orbs should have craftable uses, hoards should be easier to level after 100 as not everyone has 100 million in gold lying around. If you want players to stay, can we not add game modes that feel designed to burn out as a requirement to max it out?

I love this game and we may be the “vocal minority” as you guys claim, but you have to see our point that participation does not equal satisfaction or happiness. Not everyone may be happy, but events like pets tend to be favored overall, but stuff like delves have some issues. You have to choose between fun and progress. Why not add casual game modes like treasure hunt style or arena. Quick, repeatable, and rewarding but not something you have to do or forever be left behind.

9 Likes

Yes it is confusing, seemingly illogical and it adds to the frustration that it is like it is. It’s a good concept, the execution of it maybe needs a re-work. Atm it seems almost counter productive to do it. I’m doing ok, have about 5k renown but will not be able to faction run anything for a while as a result.

The drawback is guild requirements. Mine aren’t bad and so I can do this.

I did consider using the usual hound and YG team in bounty, but I conceded it as the worst thing in the game to do last week and skipped it to do some delves. I had also spent way too long on delves Tuesday. The daft thing was I bought the tiers but did only 4 games and got bored.

Totally understand, I just think there needs to be a little more thought behind some of the changes, incentivise better and maybe get things right on release (or listen to feedback and new content will be more welcomed) New content that isn’t is what is leading to frustration, burning out, falling behind and perceptions. We don’t want the game to die, we won’t get it made in our eyes, so we are all in the book, just at different chapters, but wanting the same thing at the end of it - fun.

2 Likes

Thanks for taking the time to post such a considerate response.

A few points I’d disagree / comment on:

  • it’s not an ask for new content to stop, but to slow, or at least not need an extra 20+ battles per day to feel like progressing at all
  • your stance throughout is perfectly logical, but I think you underestimate the emotional impact of feeling the collection is impossible to finish, when for many people the game is a collection game - they aren’t comfortable just knowing the collection is growing and improving, when the gap to what isn’t collected or maxed grows even faster - or they’ll switch to a game where the same time playing feels like it’s achieving more
  • I’m increasingly uncomfortable with how energy gating seems to rule the game now, after the early years of the devs flatly avoiding it - yes I can play as much as I like, when I like - except that it’s not the modes I need to play to progress missing collectibles - I don’t need to do endless pvp - I have about 50m gold and 200k+ glory that I can’t spend - yet bloody delves are gated with sigils and those troops will never be in the drop pools - for players that have everything else, this is a pain
  • because my vast four-year-old stack of resources is actually no use at all to get the newest things, I have to play the new modes as much as I can - which takes way more time - don’t underestimate again the emotional impact of feeling you ‘missed out’ by not being able to play long enough
11 Likes

Most of the people complaining are people trying to 100% the game. That’s not what the majority of people want in a game. If the game was exactly the same as it was 2 years ago you all would’ve gotten 100% and then had no choice but to quit by now. People at the end of the game need new content so that they can keep playing. For us old timers just think of new content the same way you think of a mushroom headed baby saying “Thank you Mario! But our princess is in another castle”

4 Likes

I stopped playing exactly because of this. I used to have 30 minutes a day to play, which seemed perfect, but the week delves came out, I just quit. I have no intention of coming back, but I just saw this thread in the forum summary email and thought I would +1 this post, as this is what made me quit the game.

3 Likes

I kinda enjoy having so much to do.
And nothing is mandatory. (Unless in top guilds I guess)
I understand completionists getting overwhelmed, but all I can say is lay back, relax, and try to accept just doing some of what you can.
Delve are not mandatory. You can take 3 days to complete one run if you want. So you’ll miss on some daily attempts… so what? I don’t understand how people feel forced to do it.

It’s not like your account gets deleted if you skip a week…

1 Like

a LOT of top 50 guilds are down people currently. I think salty said their daily player base is increasing, I am having zero problems recruiting new people. But it seems to me a lot of more established players are leaving the game. part of the reason recruiting has been a pain lately.

1 Like

As I said, I see the Steam statistics and fully believe Salty because yes, more people than ever are playing this game and checking it out. But the older players are leaving. That, however, is the way the story goes - the game took a new direction, which attracts people not attracted before and turns some of those away who loved it before. The forum is a place where usually only longtime players stick around to become known in the community, so while it might feel like a lot of the people here are quitting (because they are since the game changed), this does not mean the userbase itself is dwindling at all.

Also, because people here said that only completionists are complaining, I want to state again that I’m not a completionist anymore ever since Raid/Invasion were added and I still enjoyed the game before delves. I am also not someone who’s against new content. I am against new content that gates huge parts of the game like delves do to make said content a daily mandatory task. That’s cool for dungeons, which take like two minutes, but not for delves.

Also this:

Salty, I hope you really make this mindset of yours true by giving players the opportunity to earn chaos shards through other means than delves so that, for example, people who only play Treasure Hunt can also enjoy the Underworld or upgrade their weapons a bit. I didn’t enjoy the events like Raid and was totally fine with not doing them because I could instead play the other aspects of the game which I enjoyed and still do well. Delves, however, are vastly different.

Delves gating highlevel ingots, renown and shards (and with that troops) and being the only source of them means that this is the opposite of “offering content to a variety of players”. It means that those who like the mode have fun and everyone else has to force themselves to do them or suffer from not being able to enjoy quite a bit of content since they just can’t get to it any other way. I’m surprised you say that you want to offer content to a variety of players when delves are the most restricted thing you introduced so far - not saveable three daily attempts, level gets restricted since you can’t freely switch through all levels you cleared, colors are restricted…that’s a lot of restrictions and not all of them are needed. The colors I get. Only three attempts a day is smart. But the fact that the attempts don’t work like treasure maps and that levels are not freely adjustable to cater to as many people as possible and their time they have for the game is weird. Like some people only play on the weekends and love delves and would maybe do all their attempts from the week then if they could save them up? Stuff like that. The daily reset works for dungeons since they’re three short battles. Delves are far more complex and time-consuming…

I remember someone here on the forums who only does treasure hunt and who’s rightfully superproud of all the mythics he has because he got all his keys from TH. This person will never get a chance to collect the underworld troops or renown bonuses for a least a chance to upgrade his weapons with random daily ingots. And that’s sad because he got so far with his gamemode he loves!

Last but not least, here is a bunny that looks like a ball.:rabbit: This is relevant because the bunny is round and so are the gems. This is not off-topic at all.:rabbit::rabbit:
image

12 Likes

I fully agree with this!!!
We’ve already had a few people in our guild quit because now there’s too much to do.
Stop adding new content every month! Most of us don’t have 6 hr/day to devote to this game and we don’t want to be penalised for not being able to complete everything every day.

2 Likes

As said before. It looks like many endgame players is leaving nowadays, more than before. It looks like some changes have to arrive in the near future. The domino effects is sometimes like a killer hurricane.

2 Likes