The suspicion: that Slot 2 tasks now have a much higher chance of offering deeds and/or medals, such that (perhaps) they impede a person from getting Power Star Progressing offers (such as pet offers, or Class XP, etc…).
If this is true, it could impede anyone not at max stars while really helping those who are — fewer “worthless” deals like Crafting Wealth, etc…, more (albeit expensive) opportunities to buy writs and deeds.
To determine relative weights of various offers, all we need is for enough people to include pictures of their Daily Deals, and any Arena offers gathered. Please label appropriately so as not to muddy the waters.
Anyone who keeps extensive records in spreadsheet form (especially if you have pre-patch data to compare against) is also welcome and appreciated.
@Mithran I thought this thread could serve in a way that would limit the clutter on your Bug Report thread. Only posts you deem relevant to the discussion need be linked there. Please let me know if you think I’ve forgotten some key component so I can edit this opening post accordingly.
There is no specific kingdom currently in need of yellow deeds or books — my only un-maxxed kingdom is Bright Forest, currently in need of the Campaign Mythic, Fountain of Stars. The offer is not labelled with a specific “help get x to Power Level y”
Verse 2 is currently the one I’m in most need of — after purchase, I have 41, whereas the others, respectively, number 68, 48, and 45
Saturday 9 October Daily Deals. The only troop that I haven’t yet to mythic(of those that count to Kingdom Power) is the Fountain of Stars, I have some kingdoms blocked by class levels and one(Zhul’Kari) from pets.
Arena deals(sorry for the lack of screenshots) were: Oracle class exp, Verse 3 and the one with keys and the splashscreen of the Dwarf Miner.
Dont need yellow deeds. I have 20 already. No kingdom needs them to be levelled up for power. Meanwhile I have seven kingdoms needing class xp (though I never buy these as class xp is one of the few things you can actually farm) and two kingdoms needing pets (always buy).
Guessing someone is tracking these? To know the rate of how an offer appears, we will need to report back daily and not just when angry or excited.
Highest level account (only needs needed for Kingdom Power are yellow), highest kingdom power 20 (whitehelm). I have 19 kingdoms that are pet blocked, most of them exclusively pet blocked. Three of the last four days have had non-kingdom track offers in slot 2 (medals, green deeds, troop that I needed for a different kingdom, purple deeds).
Lowest - all below power 5 with a couple at 5, some at 0, highest power 5. This account did meet the conditions for the ingot offer on this day so it an an “expected” kingdom track offer. It has zero of any verses, but I highly doubt those would target anyways being a “general” offer here.
I only checked my alts once before this because they are now retired. On last check, the account checked (the third one) had a kingdom track offer in slot 2.
I don’t have definitive prepatch data I can show, I can only say that prior to the patch I’ve never gotten a non-kingdom track offer in slot 2 of daily offers. Which makes sense, because there is always a kingdom track offer that can be generated for all of these accounts, for most of the kingdoms, at any given time.
That would be helpful. I was mostly trying to figure out exactly what is going on because the way slot 2 “kingdom track” offers are generated is way different in a way that was not described in the patch notes.
The screenshot suggests you have Khetar at Power 20 but only level 10 (with level 13 being required to reach power 21), and you are still post patch generating Kingdom Helper. This is exactly what I was afraid of. These are the offers that should be generating deeds, but you are still getting the completely useless offer.
I’m also suspecting this is the case, because it appears that both errant offers that spurred on the change in the first place (extra troop copies getting offered when needing elite levels and event key/gold being offered when you need deeds) have now been shown to still exist within the offers pool, even if they are now less common. Which means they wallpapered over the problem instead of actually fixing it.
Deeds being targeted to how many you have lying around or verses being targeted like that is something that I would not have expected to happen because resources on hand is not a thing that was ever checked by any kingdom track offer, and it is becoming more clear that any deeds offers appearing in the middle slot are still not kingdom track offers. It also stands to reason that any offer that can appear in slot 1, such as the Verses offer, would not check collection at all, because they never have (these were always stated to be “player level” offers, but the threshold for them changing has always been speculated to be level 1000 or below, so essentially everyone posting on these forums would have the same pool of offers in slot 1/3).
I want to be clear that this was not what was asked for. 3 out of 4 days since the patch I’m offered non-kingdom track offers that can’t help me, and even those near the end of the “kingdom track” are just getting random offers instead of new kingdom track offers targeted at those specific needs. Sure, when replaced the middle slot is something that most endgamers would find “more useful” in general, but is superseding what is pretty much the only avenue I have to get past the pet bottlenecks to even get here in the first place. It is unlikely that even my main account will ever reach the point where I’m hard bottlenecked by needing kingdom levels or elite levels to progress the power level of a kingdom; and for an account on the pace of my (retired) alt, highest kingdom power 12, most between 5 and 9, being 4+ years old, would never have reached that point ever.
All that needed to be done was swap out the offers that were generating from tasks that couldn’t ever help (needing medals offering troops, needing deeds offering an event key and gold, and the third one that they didn’t even pretend to touch: needing a weapon or forge scrolls and offering ingots) with newly generated kingdom track offers offering things that would help getting past those respective bottlenecks, not nuke the whole system for everyone that basically doesn’t need help with kingdom power anymore. Why does it feel like every requested and implemented game change is a case of malicious compliance?
I’m tempted to take all my kingdoms that are power 9 on main to a power level where they are blocked only by a pet or a task that doesn’t generate kingdom track offers, but I’m worried this still won’t get me back to seeing pet offers.
@Mithran Yeah, I have Kethar at 20☆but only level 10. Other kingdoms are in the same situation since I tend to spend gold on them only when I can raise their power.
Checking the Gemologica site for current power requirements …
4 kingdoms need a mythic character.
7 need additional weapons.
7 need one more pet at level 20.
18+ need additional copies of characters to ascend to mythic and level 20.
If it isn’t immediately apparent to a company rep why being offered copies of Manticore Cub (despite already having 356 extras!) when what she “needs” are medals isn’t at all helpful or “working as intended” (if what is intended is for these offers to actually help progress kingdom power), then therein the problem lays.
This is an alignment issue where identified “gaps” don’t match proposed “plugs”. The system needs to be smarter than simply checking the 3 kingdom tasks and delivering (often mis-matched) offers based on those.
What if instead, the system did what it’s doing now — finding a kingdom power task yet unfinished. THEN — instead of immediately rolling an offer based on THAT, have the system check that kingdom for whatever is triggering that lack.
For example: if the one weapon a player doesn’t have maxed is EoE, fine — offer mythic ingots to punish that player for choosing not to have the random toad affix if you must.
If the unmaxed weapon is a doom weapon, then offer forge scrolls. Make them cost prohibitive if you don’t want to so that at the very least people don’t think you don’t understand your own game when you design misaligned elements.
If the unmaxed weapon is a missing weapon, offer the weapon for purchase with gems. Or make the offer automatically turn into one of the general pool if you don’t want to. Simple.
But, see? This is why your design is bad. There are at least THREE reasons why a person might have power blocked by weapons, but there is only ONE offer currently given to “solve” this lack. For TWO of the reasons, though, the one “solution” (ingots) solves nothing! Furthermore — because the ingots offered seem to be of random rarity rather than targeted to whatever weapon isn’t fully-affixed, there are even times where none of the three possible reasons why a player is power blocked is addressed by an offer of ingots. Instead, the player is just frustrated.
So.
This isn’t fixed, and I’m sort of offended that it was claimed to be.
More Imperial Deeds, if indeed that turns out to be the case with enough pictures to suggest it, is appreciated.
But having a system be band-aid “fixed” in a way that doesn’t actually fix anything is not. Not at all.
There is no specific kingdom currently in need of blue or purple deeds or books (except in the sense that all blue kingdoms are, since costs are so high to get all kingdoms to 30— my only un-maxxed kingdom is Bright Forest, currently in need of the Campaign Mythic, Fountain of Stars. The offer is not labelled with a specific “help get x to Power Level y”
So far, with the caveat of this thread still being a very small sample size, it does feel like deeds are pretty common offers post-patch. In the case of Imperial Deeds and Writs, it’s appreciated. But colored deeds are cost-prohibitive at this point for most and should, at this point, have their price reduced because, if they’re not, then the “fix” seems to just replace clutter with a different kind of clutter.
Consider:
For a new player catching up, maybe the costs are about right, if pretty expensive — they need 30 deeds to get a level 15 kingdom, so 15 purchases of deed offers at 300 gems a pop: 4,500 gems. For a stat point it isn’t too awful. It gets awful when you multiply it by the number of kingdoms there are, but
For a player with all kingdoms to level 15, though? These players now need two books to go to 16, each respectively requiring 50 colored deeds. So…that’s 50 colored deed purchases at 300 — 15,000 gems just to get 10% bonus mythstones from a single kingdom. Before including the additional costs associated with Imperial Deeds, gold, etc… Not worth it, I’d guess, for most people. Is anyone buying these with the math like this? I don’t buy them, myself
I’d suggest the game is in a place where books need to be an offer, maybe for twice the cost of an Imperial Deed: 1k gems apiece is something I’d buy, to get extra mythstones for 2k gems per kingdom, and maybe I’d go further than that (doubtful, since book requirements ramp up so dramatically).
It would have been more useful to randomly check for things not maxed, even if it’s not currently blocking a kingdom.
Any class not at 100? Offer class XP.
Any pet not mythic? Offer pet copies.
Any kingdom not maxed? Offer deeds.
Any doomed weapons not maxed? Offer forge scrolls.
You get the idea…
Plus some random stuff like verses, warcoins, crafting materials…
It might not always be immediately useful but will be in the long run.
The current system is useful up to some point but soon turns into hot garbage.
My offers are usually ingots, medals, treasure troops, chaos shards… I don’t need any of that.
Dear devs, this means I’m not spending gems which means I don’t have an incentive to buy gems with real money.
Agreed 1000%. I always buy imperial deed and writ offers, and would also buy your proposed offer of 1 colored deed book for 1000 gems. But 300 gems for 2 colored deeds and 60,000 gold is way too high. If they had instead offered 2 colored deeds without any gold for 100 gems at the very most, then I would be buying those offers every chance I get.
Acct1 (the class offer is on me, I pushed the power a bit too high without checking first when attempting to cull other offers yesterday, this is an appropriate kingdom track offer)
So even an account that hasn’t even reached power 5 on most kingdoms is still getting slot 2 offers from what appears to be a “medals, deeds, or writs” pool taking over the kingdom track.
While I will admit that this early on the kingdom track offers are generally unhelpful as if you are truly stuck here it is generally because you are missing a Legendary or traitstones for power 5, both which don’t generate any kingdom track offers at all; and ingots, which are almost always a dead offer slot
Consider:
If a low rarity weapon is available to upgrade, the system won’t target it, and high rarity ingots are extremely cost prohibitive. With 200 gems for 2 mythic ingots per offer with 55 needed is 5600 gems and 28 targeted kingdom track offers to actually fully upgrade a mythic weapon AND the fact that the ingot type offered is random AND the fact that power 4 > needs a single weapon upgrade and there will almost certainly be a Ultra-Rare or below to pick up for any given kingdom, which is trivial to trait. So ingot offers, of all types, are pretty much a dead offer in slot 2 regardless of the circumstance, at least in the way they exist now. Targeted (and sensibly priced) would at least put them on the table for the player struggling with this because they don’t engage with the half of the game that offers these.
But the above paragraph tangential to the matter at hand, so I’m just going to hide it behind a tab, because “bad deals” is only a small part of “bad offers”.
What appears to be happening here, and I’m more and more certain of this every single post, is the “fix” to the offers system did the following:
Kept nonsense and outright broken offers in place, such as offering one event key and gold when blocked by deeds; extra copies of troops when being blocked by medals (when EVERY “level x troop to y level” task correctly selected a valid troop for the offer worked perfectly fine before the elite levels requiring tasks); and ingot offers of the wrong type and ingot offers when you can only upgrade a weapon you don’t currently have in the pool (which there wasn’t even a faint attempt at fixing)
Gave some random chance for slot 2 to instead just be a deeds/writs/medals offer. Possibly based on total overall progress, possibly instead of certain types of kingdom track offers when they are selected, possibly just a fixed rate for all accounts.
So at this point I feel I need to bring up all the offers that worked correctly before the patch. Not commenting on pricing here but in that they did at least an adequate job of selecting an incomplete power task and serving an offer that would help with the task, laid out in a way where you could easily avoid getting an offer that could never help you if you did your due diligence:
Every pet offer, which would offer copies of a random non-delve non-special pet within the kingdom not at that level (ascending it doesn’t count, it must be leveled to leave the pool)
Every troop offer generated from a “level x troops to y level” before elite levels entered the picture. This would always correctly select a troop that was not ascended to at least the rarity required to level it up
Every class xp offer, which would only be offered if the “level x class to y” was an incomplete power task in a kingdom
So rather than fixing the other three checks that were utterly broken and did not serve up offers that would get their users over the bottleneck (elite level x troops to y, level a kingdom to x > 10, fully upgrade x weapons), thus locking people with very few “valid” offers left in “offer purgatory”, they instead made kingdom track offers less common for every account so the people in “offer purgatory” would at least have a better chance at not something getting the dead offer. Only the “other” thing is something from a small random pool that is not in anyway targeted but takes over the targeted offer slot, and now everyone is subject to the “other” thing whether they actually want it or not taking over their targeted offers. We also have to consider that among this pool, medals is still pretty much a “dead offer” because they only go up to ultra-rare, which is not a significant bottleneck in any way to people at this level of progression compared to deeds, and deeds are already cost prohibitive.
How did we start with what was like targeted offers system (for at least one slot) that got pushed with some incompleteness and brokeness that got called out and documented over and over which then got patched over not to complete and flesh it out for better targeting of offers but to just make it randomly fail and push something that “most people want”? While keeping all the brokeness, just making it a little bit less noticeable. Doesn’t that, I don’t know, kind of defeat the purpose of targeting offers in the first place?
