No. This is a curb on multiple ie 30 mythic or legendary troops dropping from LTS. That’s what the update is aiming to prevent.
I would also wager that if you do reach LTS, the troop drop will be massively reduced. That’s the goal of 4.7
Of course it would, but that wont happen, so I was providing an option that still has a chance at giving us them, without constantly giving them to us.
I hate the random of chaos orbs, I still dont have Zuul, but a chance at something is better than not available
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The number one thing, it seemed, people complained about with the original Epic Tasks was getting yet another key nerf. This second update takes that complaint off the table. And I have to applaud this concession by the devs, this is a great improvement from the first two implementations of Epic Tasks.
(I wish the players could’ve gotten a similar outcome when the AB was introduced! That hit to keys affected far more players.)
Indeed, something is better than nothing. Just very disheartening that they decided to remove it.
in general
green and purple tasks should be done both (epic tasks too)
and blue for gems
thats around 18mil
600k for each player
Where it says 3 legendary troops lost it should say (90) troops lost. This is how many are given out for each of the legendary troops. Every 5 weeks at 20% you should get a mythic with LT thats 30 troops. That is very misrepresented there. Giving individuals extra seals to EARN doesnt seem like an even trade at all. Why put communities of guilds in the game if you want this to be individualistic game environment.
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The problem with that logic is you can do that for all resources. You could multiply keys, shards, pet food, and all other resources you gain by 30. They didn’t misrepresent anything, you severely misinterpreted to fit your narrative.
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Nope.
If you wanna go that route, its x30 the rewards for everything at the same cost.
Or more accurately, keep the amount the same and divide the cost by 30, as it should be evenly(not always though) between all 30 members.
First off, thank you for releasing the full numbers instead of keeping everyone guessing.
Per rates datamined after the last legendary task change (right after when gems were removed, when calcs were done comparing them to gold keys), Mythics are on Table 3 (the high value table) at 0.5% (1 in 200). Per explanation of how legendary tasks are rolled when they first released, table 3 is picked first, so the chance for mythic should be exactly 1 in 200. Per claims of how much of the other resources come out of 31.5 tasks, I believe they still roll table 3 to table 1, as rolling table 1 would have drastically different values for a few of the resources (because once something is selected on a table, it can’t be selected on the next 2 tables, and the high chance of rolling 1 gem key on the first two tables would significantly reduce the average expectation of gem keys, for example). Saying “0.1575 Mythics Troops” might sound weirder than “a very small chance at a mythic (less than 20%)” but is also more accurate. We are talking in terms of average expectations here - you don’t get exactly these rewards every 31.5 LTs, this is the average value of 31.5 LTs - stating “chance” for this one item doesn’t make sense and it it confusing some people.
For the record, I wouldn’t consider that chance a “very small chance” at a mythic, by the way. It isn’t negligible. 31.5 LTs carries an average expecation of 0.1575 mythics. For a lot of people firmly entrenched in endgame, it is very likely this mythic will be a duplicate and that is why it is useless to that group of people staying at this level for a long time and why having it being “exchanged” for a bunch of other stuff that is also near useless isn’t all that bad… for us. For a player still building their collection, the loss of mythic troop chances equates to a loss of roughly 157.5 gem keys times the percentage of mythics in the drop pool not claimed. For example, a player with no mythics or legendaries gets roughly 157.5 more gem keys worth of “collection value” out of the 31.5 legendary tasks, while this “value” for veteran players with every key dropped mythic owned is very close to zero. I find it interesting that this “small chance” at mythic and legendary troops is getting downplayed when it is taken away, when it would likely be upsold if it was given instead of something.
That being said…
To put it in other terms, from the raw troop chances alone every single legendary task has roughly the same expectation of mythic and legendary troop drops as 5 gem keys opened at that very moment (but very importantly ignoring mythic exclusivity), and this is what is being “converted” into the writs and deeds and tokens and ingots and pet food (and jewels, I guess?). But also these “5 gem keys worth” of legendaries or mythics that include the entire pool and can’t be saved are significantly less useful than some people are making them out to be especially if you have complete or near complete collections currently.
What this “loss” (if you are even in a position for it to be a “loss”) means to you personally is going to differ heavily - quite a blow for newer players somehow getting into and being carried by a top guild, a smaller loss for players that are still building their old mythic collections (smaller still if they don’t get that many legendary tasks), and negligible for those that continually have every mythic already. But this is worth saying again - the people hit hardest by this are people with a large amount of missing mythics that are also in top guilds hitting 31+ legendary tasks. Most veterans probably won’t notice the loss much, and most newer players probably won’t be in a position where they would have something to lose. Early “endgamers” (or is it “late midgamers?”) with middling mythic collections and all the must haves that are also in top guilds right now might be looking at fewer “free old mythics”, but it shouldn’t impact their ability to target future troops in any significant way and keep pace with the game, nor to keep up with the meta, but it probably will extend the time it takes to fully complete collection by a bit. I’d probably be upset too if I was in this phase of the game, but I can see why they want to extend the phase of reaching “terminal endgame” where people are almost impossible to please as long as possible.
I don’t think the “good stuff” being spread out is a bad thing for the system. This puts “universal wants” throughout every reward table, at nearly every step of the way, the the tertiary goal items put firmly as secondary rewards. You aren’t “buying x (chaos shards,ingots, etc)” anymore. You are “buying a small amount of keys and happen to get x thing along the way”. While the initial change proposal single key task would have given my guild personally more keys probably, it would have also made a few of the other tasks firm avoid at all costs. The “keys on one task, writs on another, then maybe medals” implementation didn’t really present much of a choice, just pitfalls for the uninformed or unorganized guilds. I also like that the new tasks start at 150k and follow a smooth progression up to 800k rather than the jagged “double normal tasks” progression that put a bunch of 10k gold cost tasks that I just know people in less organized guilds would hit way before they should. This new system is much harder to “game” by cherry picking out certain rewards, but that also means it is much less likely slower guilds (like the one a couple of my alts are in) will be throwing money away at these (it is significantly harder to get everyone on the same page for lower earning guilds, which would have made the problem even worse, but hopefully this new cost spread makes it obvious not to touch Epic Tasks above primary tasks).
That is surprising. I expected the old table to twice as many as is currently this many chaos shards when extrapolating from initial values and then dividing it by 10. Man, the old tables were so very poorly designed.
Why jewels at all still comes to mind for me? The quantities of jewels given over the entirety of the tasks are worth less than 4 pet food of each color or about 8 forges of old (non doom) weapons… over the course of a year, if you always complete every one. Or 6 summoning stones (1 of each color) every 5 weeks… again for completing all of them. With the jewels being in the primary spot for reward 4 on every table, this is basically an empty reward tier and the average “value” plummets at this point no matter what calculation you use… there is no universe where you can equate 8 jewels to 2-3 gem keys. Even the switch to what might be “less desirable” primary rewards on the table could have an argument made for them, ie., 6 pet food might be worth 3-4 gem keys for some players, and 1 deed might be worth between 4 gem keys and 4 event keys for some people for the time being. Just a very confusing decision for a reward table that otherwise looks like it is intended to trend upwards.
Also, as pointed out, the rarities of tokens given amount to just about nothing. Tokens went from one of the most desirable primary rewards given to the least desirable secondary reward. Not that I necessarily mind as the secondary rewards are all pretty low value, but I hope there is still some other plan to get guaranteed high rarity tokens into the reward structure without banging your head against RNG hours on end.
Overall, the the Epic Task system is still a nerf to collection building (for some more than others), but overall a much more palatable one because it doesn’t prominently feature paying primarily for stuff that is not universally wanted in game’s central reward structure, it features them instead as secondary rewards you can guide toward (or not). The initial reward structure was extremely poorly designed, plain and simple, and had it always existed people would be complaining about how bad it is by now because everything on the loot tables have dead ended. This new one is something that could have always existed with relatively few complaints because the stuff that dead ends is just small bonuses you are getting along the way, and it will likely stand the test of time even if the secondary rewards happen to get largely obsoleted.
It remains to be seen how much of this “loss” can be recouped from increased seal caps. Some of these go to the new troops being introduced temporarily (temporarily, like guardians, right? I know guardians still go away when they are mythic +4, but I don’t remember hearing anything about these new troops?).
By the way, speaking of seal caps, I’m still apprehensive on this because they said on stream they were cleaning up how certain things worked with seals to be consistent. People from beta have been swearing there is no hidden nerf here, but have you guys checked to make sure you still get personal credit for seals claimed from the mail even after you’ve hit your guild contribution cap, and you still get both increased guild contribution and personal seals for using an orb, even if you are capped (with hopefully using an orb before you are capped now working like a cash purchase does)? It makes me really uneasy that the new cap has very purposely not been disclosed and losing either of these would be nerfs to the overall ability to collect seals even if the initial cap is buffed.
tl;dr: Epic Tasks V1 was a large economy rebalance (read: big nerf) to affected players where endgame player “wants” were completely misconstrued in a way that was downright insulting by offering almost entirely pitfalls; V2 was a bandaid fix on V1 that was still mostly pitfalls (most the tasks were set up to be skipped but most the rewards were still bait for less informed and less organized guilds); V3 is still a rebalance away from collection building, but much less egregious and removes most of the pitfalls (none of the task trees look to be “avoid at all costs” anymore, which is a very good thing). V3 may be still a nerf for some people (and some significantly more than others), but its no longer has the air of being done to only nerf and the main concern of most people complaining about it has been addressed (ability to maintain collections going forward has been addressed, new player collection building still takes a hit but mostly for newer players in top guilds that would have gotten multiple LTs). I wish they wouldn’t nerf at all and these little “extras” could be sought out with limited gameplay by the individual to serve as an opportunity cost to completing other goals, but I suppose that was too much to ask - they very clearly want a rebalance of some kind here, and I’m surprised we even got this based on how severe past economy “rebalances” have been. This redesign seems much less potentially divisive to guilds as well, and might actually be motivating (fingers crossed).
tl;dr for tl;dr:
As a compromise, this seems acceptable to me. I’m sorry if you got nerfed and I hope whatever is else coming allows you to recoup.
21 Likes
The latest revamp of Epic Tasks shows a movement towards a compromise, so thanks for that, at least it shows devs bothered to listen.
Rest of it, sorry, I am personally not so convinced - to me it seems that only aim of the epic tasks was to reduce the best free chance of mid-tier guilds to get legendary and mythic troops. I understand top 20 or 30 guilds and players who got all or most of the troops like it, cause it gives access to resources which were otherwise very hard or impossible to obtain. That’s why I don’t see why wouldn’t Epic Tasks be optional, so that guilds who need other resources get them, and for people who still need troops, get legendary tasks which are at the moment your best bet to get legendaries and mythics.
To show this, sorry, guys, I have to use math:
Let’s say a guild did 30 LTs per week, that’s 120 LT’s per month, and on average would yield with 1 mythic per month for the whole guild. Sadly, I don’t know how many legendaries would you get, but I’d say at least 20 per month.
Regardless of the keys we would be getting with this revamp (since the number is almost the same as from LTs), guild who did 30 LTs, loses 30 mythics and 600 legendaries per month overall. This is why we don’t like it and this is the part that has not been compensated with anything (or anything announced so far).
First main objective of the game is to gather all troops to be an awesome player. Second objective is to boost all those troops, and that is what is offered with epic tasks. That’s why epic tasks should be optional, to enable players who got all the troops to be even better and advance further.
If epic tasks cannot be optional, why not turn things around - offer epic tasks after we completed 30 or 40 or 50 legendary tasks - so that the best, have-everything-else guilds still get what they want and need, and mid-tier guilds are not ripped off of troops.
Again, I don’t see how epic tasks are an improvement to the game for anyone who does not have 90% of troops.
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If keys and troops had the same value your logic would make since, but finding a troop is worth more than the keys that were given otherwise. These tasks can only be done once while LT’s where unlimited once opened. Reaching this mark gave every guild a chance after that to start getting the chance to get this reward. Now we gave up those chances for something that is not the same value or even chance of value.
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How may keys did any of you spend to get the new mythic? How many people dumped all or more than half they saved all month for one copy. This is what the cost of every mythic will now be. No longer will a guild be able to find one as a group. This is the problem i have with the whole thing.
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Used to be 244, so yes. The few people I told were not amused.
Definitely.
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Got new mythic with first 50 gem key pull 
I still don’t feel the cost is right even tho there has been some improvement to the task resources.
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I can earn 9500 gold per explore with double cedric, or half that with a speed team, and that’s more than 3x 
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Don’t bother trying to be rational with the pre-determined-to-see-only-doom–n-gloom… they will knock down anything with a bulldozer of negativity.
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IMO that’s more a sign of power disparity and it’s not a thing that’s easy to balance. However, it ties back to what I said long ago: this system increases power disparity in weird ways.
A newer player can’t farm gold. Any efficient gold farming team requires Cedric and at least one more troop they won’t have. Getting Cedric at all is nothing but RNG and time. Farming effectively needs stats, which takes kingdom power, which they don’t have.
When it comes to new features, I like to ask a few questions to try and get a handle on my feelings. I don’t like my answers to Epic Tasks, which is why I don’t like them:
- Who benefits most? Endgame players in guilds that donate at least 50m per week already.
- How does it impact the average player? A player in a guild that got a small number of LTs occasionally will now have some of those rewards converted to different things the guild can “choose” if they focus.
- How many players see no impact? I’m not sure about this, but I suspect most players don’t see LTs so let’s go with “most players”.
- How does it make the game more exciting? It makes rewards more predictable and controllable for the most competitive players, an adjustment to LT rewards had been requested occasionally.
- Does it make the game less exciting? For how many people? Most players are going to stop getting LTs, a reward that trickles in throughout the week and has a tiny chance of giving you a mythic. Psychologically they’re a reason to log in every day. If the ETs a guild can get don’t “feel” as good as what the LTs were giving, it’s going to “feel” like a nerf no matter how the balance sheet says it lays.
That’s why I don’t like it. It feels like endgamers get the disproportionately big end of the stick and it’s very hard for me to understand how players who weren’t getting significant LTs already will feel this is anything but a punishment for not playing 8 hours a day.
So I find any argument of the form, “We did this so lower-level players…” very suspect. Lower-level players can’t reap the benefits of multi-million gold investments like endgamers can. Any feature that gives a cookie to a newbie and a dozen donuts to an endgamer isn’t pointed at the newbie.
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Bit of a reach. I avg 1-2 hours with frequent logins for tributes daily and produce 4M+ gold weekly. Full disclosure I have every kingdom at max stars except Mist of Scales (thanks pet gate 
) and am in a guild that will be able to complete ETs weekly.
If I played 8hrs/day I could easily do 12M+/week.
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