Brown Task Change a BIG Nerf


#1

OK so some of you might remember how I did this big list of calculations last week to see just how hard the top guilds were being hit - and the numbers that I got supported what we’d been told.

And I and some others noted that we were getting a silly amount of Gold Keys by comparison to the other stuff. Well, now its just low.

(All other tasks remain as advertised last week - but the Brown ones, well, no…)

Before:

After:
Total: 670 Gold Keys, 160 Glory Keys (info being gathered here matches up with what I’ve seen)
670 Gold Keys at 300 each = 1608 Gems
160 Glory Keys at 20 Glory each = 800 Gems
TOTAL = 2408 Gems’ worth

Even adjusting for the now-confirmed total cost of 15,660,000 (instead of an even 16 million), the old system got us 10,672 Gems’ worth for that. We are now getting 5,625 Gems’ worth, or 52.7%.

Nearly cut in half?

I really, really hate it when people throw around super-accusatory terms like “stealth nerf” but unfortunately this is exactly what it feels like here. We were already getting hit pretty hard, but now this too?


#2

People actually asked to change the gold keys and the devs decided to change the total and add Glory Keys to balance the interests among all colors. Some arguments used were that we already get gold keys from tributes.


#3

I know - I was one of them. My issue is that we managed to get gutted in the process. I was under the impression that they’d give as much as they took. At the very least distribute it among the other tasks.


#4

Considering the potential for better rewards that Glory keys have over the Gold keys, my best assumption is that the devs used another form to calculate how much these “extra” Glory keys are worth. Like, and i hope i can explain it correctly:

  • The intended cap of possible Glory Keys from the tasks was 500 (easy number for example). These are worth 1000 gems (just another easy number for exemplification), so 1 Glory Key = 2 Gems.
  • Adding more Glory Keys on another task increased the total to 750, but these extra Glory Keys (250) will increase the potential rewards you can get from them, so they will cost one extra gem, each. So 750 Glory Keys = 1750 Gems, hence why they had to cut more gold keys to balance the scales.

Again, this is my assumption.


#5

I don’t understand why devs listened to some players… Why do you need so much glory keys when with guild tasks you have Magic and Event keys?

Gold keys is the only keys that can give Common troops. I have 47 Epic Snow Spirite so I need 104 other copies… This troop was released May 26th…
Of course, one very active player is going to say “I have her in Mythic since two months” but how much players can say the same?

And what did you think? That devs were going to give us the same amount than before the patch?


#6

Ok, i won’t say anything… :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
(But seriously i guess i was just lucky with her anyway. I’m needing much more of some common troops.)


#7

What I said was that 2200 Gold Keys against 236 Glory Keys seemed like an imbalance and it should be closer than a 10:1 ratio. NOT “nooo, not Gold Keys”. I quoted some alternate numbers that would have been fine:

As for the numbers I’m using, I have to assume they’re correct since my initial calculations matched Sirrian’s estimate nearly flawlessly. Whatever has happened since then isn’t because of some different math.


#8

When you abstract a certain way you can say that a glory key is “worth” 4 gems while a gold key is “worth” 2.4 gems. And by that logic the 1530 gold keys should be “worth” 918 glory keys and not the 160 we get.

But I think that is an unfair breakdown. It takes 4 pvp wins to get enough to buy a glory key. In those 4 wins I normally pocket at least 7200 gold, or 24 gold keys worth. Using that metric those 1530 gold keys are worth 64 glory keys, so it wouldn’t be a nerf.

And there is the problem with trying to objectively compare apples and oranges.


#9

It seems pretty reasonable to me, although I admit I don’t understand their conversion rates at a glance.

As @Rasper said, it’s hard to compare the true cost of a Gold Key vs a Glory Key bc the gold economy is so inflated. Personally, I’d rather have the much smaller amount of Glory Keys bc they get you all of the rare cards and bc gold is so easy to come by. Also, gold is actually less needed to do tasks so, so it’s very easy to divert excess to gold chests. I’d be fine with them doing away with all gold keys and just having two identical columns of glory keys.


#10

Except hardly anyone buys glory keys with actual glory. Most of everyone knows they are not remotely worth the glory they cost.

Also, you just chose a single random method of gaining gold and glory, you can’t measure worth that way. you could go with Arena or Quests (which don’t give glory) and get to the conclusion that glory keys are priceless… or you could go with how much gold/glory can be dropped from a key, and get to the conclusion that their worth is almost equal - A gold key can give about about 450 gold, or 20 glory (that’s 1.5 gold keys vs. 1 glory key).

Anyway, losing 1530 gold keys and only gaining 160 glory keys is clearly not worth it, by any means you choose to measure it. Surely that’s not what people meant when they asked for more glory keys, and that’s exactly what I feared would happen.


#11

Gold Keys were simply not ever worth that much at those prices, though. You cannot equate what is one of the worst exchange paths in the game (gems to gold, then that gold to gold keys) into equal gem value and claim relative value of glory keys. Gold keys start dropping off in RoI at about that point anyway, and top guilds wont care about how much gold they return and you’ll otherwise just end up with a very small amount of gems and a bunch of minor stones/common troops at the end of the day. Probably too many, in fact, which is why I agree with the change to replace some of them. Any amount of glory keys will probably be better for you at the end of the day than the gold keys you lost, because you should already be approaching 5k to 8k monthly with just 670 weekly from the guild, more from tribute chance bonus, the ones from glory packs, etc., not to mention any gold you get to spend if your guild can max.

However, I will agree insofar as glory key numbers across the board have been really, really low. When the task from brown changes to glory keys it therefore has a huge drop off in relative value, because glory keys cost much more per unit overall than pre-patch. 368% cost considering just entire yellow task arc, in fact. Compared to gems, which are 116% cost over the entire blue task arc compared to pre-patch, they look very much less attractive. Since late brown tasks mimic yellows numbers, these also don’t look great unless you are finishing everything, at which point you are pretty much just settling for what you can get. The sharp decline in glory keys in this patch is one of the things I really don’t agree with from this patch, especially when you consider glory keys can still get you worthless junk, like major traitstones, and more gold that cant be cycled back indefinitely into the system for more glory keys anymore and is now decidedly of a lower value.

Also true, but any realistic amount of PvP battles is not enough to farm any significant numbers of glory keys from. They way glory key drops are currently, you simply need too many of them, whether you are attempting to ascend a rare or just find a specific legendary. Glory keys will still remain not an effective use of glory for pretty much anyone.


#12

I think they are two points:

  • the values of gold and glory keys are not fair (what you are saying @Shimrra)
  • the change of gold keys to glory keys because of some player preference (“I have enough golds to buy 3k by week”) (which was the target of my previous answer)

There wasn’t any conversion ratio for this change?
They just copy/paste the rewards of the Yellow guild tasks from Level 7:


#13

Yep, brown 7+ are copies of yellow. Some of the numbers in my list are still unconfirmed, but Sirrian stated as much in the preview thread. One of the problems is how few glory keys are given by the tasks, period, given their relative costs and how bad the drops from glory keys can still be.


#14

You’d think people would learn a lesson here, but, they won’t.


#15

That was kinda my point. The two items have intrinsically different values that are very difficult to compare. As such you can pick the way that best fits a narrative to make the measurement. The example I gave was the one in the opposite direction to show just how far you can push it.


#16

Here’s another way to think abut it: Glory Keys are infinitely more valuable because they give you a chance to drop Ultra-Rares to Mythics. Unless you see strong value in running teams of all Commons and Rares then there’s no comparison. Who in their right mind would trade in 200 Glory Keys for 1200 Gold Keys?

The answer is clearly no one given that folks have been complaining for months about how difficult it is to get minor traitstones and commons. It’s actually not, if you spend gold on gold chests. But no one wanted to bc they wanted to put their gold into guild tasks to convert them into Gems… And Glory Keys!


#17

Is this not from a top guild standpoint? Before i ever joined a ‘top’ guild i bought glory keys (with glory) whenever i could.


#18

Gem and Event keys can also provide Ultra-Rare troops.

Can we know how much golds do you earn in one week? Or an estimation.
The probabilty to obtain one specific Common troop is 1% with one gold key. And you need 191 copies. So in a perfect world, you will need 19k gold keys.

In my case, I want to contribute 500k to my guild so I don’t think I will have enough golds to buy any gold keys. And I don’t think I will be the only one in this case…


#19

I was under the impression that this ‘rule’ applies to everyone, but what do I know? Maybe in casual guilds it’s considered a good idea to open glory keys with glory. We could ask other forum members who are in a casual guild, they might know what’s considered effective these days.

Anyway, it shouldn’t really matter what casual guilds think in this case, because they were not affected by this change. Only the more expensive brown tasks were replace to glory keys, so this whole discussion is from the standpoint of the more active guilds, where (to my knowledge) the common belief is that glory should not be wasted on keys.


#20

yeah ok fair enough, i agree.