2.1 Preview - Guilds

thank you very much, that sets my mind a little more at ease, i got used to the idea at least 500gems/500keys was a standard a f2p players needs - to have some decent shot at new legend/mythic cards that keep showing up, here less glory keys but at least still enough gems and in addition some gem/event keys so i think it will still be decent for f2p players :slight_smile: lets see… keeping my hopes up!

This is what I was hoping for to keep the game healthy. Sure, I loved it once I figured out to join a top guild and be “King of the World.”

I am really hoping this structure will have the casual players understanding how much more they get out of contributing to the guild, and help keep them interested in the game.

I was hoping there was going to be a way for guilds to focus on specific Legendary and above troops, as I felt that would really instill teamwork to reach longer term goals. Like a month long Mythic project.

1 Like

Based on the weekly Trophy gains, I think Dragon’s Peak is an outlier, then the next 5-10 Guilds are pretty closely clustered together. So I think somewhere around 2.2k Gems & 2.5k Glory Keys is about average for the top guilds, with the exception of Dragon’s Peak.

It’s clear that we don’t need that much. I mean, I’m sitting on 7.9k Gems and 9k Glory Keys, and that’s after chasing 2x Draakulis, and I’m at the bottom of my guild. Frankly, I was expecting somewhere in the 1k Gems and 1k Glory Keys per week range, and I would’ve been fine with that. It’s still a ton of free resources every week, but not to the “more than I ever need to spend” level. Right now, there’s literally no reason to spend once you get in a top guild, and clearly that’s a problem for a F2P game (especially given that they usually make the most money by the top players).

1 Like

That summarizes the entire topic pretty well.

The amount of free premium currency that you can earn by just playing in this F2P game is amazing. Much more than in any other game I’ve played.

1 Like

something along the line of 500-1000gems 500-1000keys /week was my guild and it was not enough to hunt a mythics (ive got only 1 mythic in total), the next system will be less then that and so all that im concerned about will it still be enough for a f2p player to keep up with hunting new legend/mythics or not?

1 Like

I come bearing Math. It is I, the Architect of Walls of Text. … no I don’t want that to be my forum title.

[quote=“Sirrian, post:256, topic:11984”]
2. Can we get a better sense of the reduction in resources in terms of Gems and Glory Keys
Yes - very happy to share the entire amount of stuff you can now net in a single week from your guild[/quote]

I’m going to try to break this down… bear in mind this is (mainly) for the higher/top guilds, its been made clear that whatever it is will be a win for everyone else.

The TL;DR is that we’re losing some value but getting it back in a lot of other places. Also its hard to match up some of the new gains since they’re tied to personal activity. Oh and Sirrian’s math is almost completely right.

Also, as for Gold, we’ve been complaining about Minor Traitstones (and Commons too) for ages, and now we can focus on getting those back again! If only because we’ll have nothing else to do with the Gold. But if you spend enough Gold Keys you start piling up a decent amount of Glory and Gems too, don’t forget.


Conversions

There are some exchange rates in-game that I can use, but it’s not exactly the same as knowing their real worth.

Based on kingdom tributes (with max stars), we know the 100% Gold is 500 (Khaziel), 100% Glory is 20 (Whitehelm), and 100% Souls is 80 (Khetar). This indicates (hazily) that there is an exchange rate of 25 Gold = 1 Glory = 4 Souls.

We also know that we can use 240 Gems to purchase 30,000 Gold, which is a ratio of 125 Gold = 1 Gem.

So if I scale up the previous results, we have:
125 Gold = 20 Souls = 5 Glory = 1 Gem


New System
(which we’re getting, that’s happening)

590 Gems = 590 Gems

42 Event Keys at 15 Gems each = 630 Gems

320 Glory = 64 Gems

64 Gem Keys at 10 Gems each = 640 Gems

236 Glory Keys at 20 Glory each = 4720 Glory = 944 Gems

5900 Souls = 295 Gems

2200 Gold Keys at 300 Gold each = 5280 Gems

9 Maps at 30 Glory each = 270 Glory = 54 Gems

TOTAL = worth 8497 Gems

I missed a couple of those on my first pass… I was going to go through the whole list first but that number has me fixed. Lets compare now.


Old System
(here meaning ‘current’)

Its been said we can only put 16 million gold in per week per guild. That’s a figure I can use.
If a guild only does Gems / Glory Keys / 7-Token tasks (which is most of us I believe), then we can calculate what we’re getting.

38,000 + 36,000 + 11,000 = 85,000 per set of three tasks. (85,000 = 10 Gems and 12 Glory Keys)

16,000,000 / 85,000 = 188.235 sets of three tasks

188 x 10 = 1880 Gems

188 x 12 = 2256 Glory Keys - at 20 Glory each, = 45,120 Glory = 9024 Gems

TOTAL = worth 10,904 Gems for the same price.

(those numbers aren’t BS, the ratio matches up with what we tend to get in a given week)


8497 is 77.926% of 10904. So clearly we’re going to get less (and I’m even counting Souls in my totals) but that’s what we’ve been told. In fact, my math (now that I’ve worked out the kinks) more or less matches what Sirrian told us: -23%. This result is, in fact, slightly better for us.

The rest of his list isn’t anywhere as easy to quantify, but it mostly helps us.

SEALS: 75 Guild Keys
… really can’t tell with these yet. Assume they’re good.

STATUE BONUSES: +50% XP, +6 Map Turns, +6% Tribute Chance, +10% Tribute Amount, +50% Souls, +2 Glory per PvP Battle

All of these are largely based on personal activity, so your mileage may vary (as they say).

+50% XP: depends on how useful leveling is after 1000, we don’t really know enough yet.

+6 Map Turns: anyone who’s done a few dozen/hundred maps knows that starting with more turns won’t actually have a huge impact. Plus we’re still having issues with efficiency.

+6% Tribute Chance: now this I can quantify, sort of. Its good however it is - right now we have 10% x 2 per kingdom… given the tiny number of 6%, I can only assume this is 6% each. That adds up. If its (10x2)+6, that’s a gain of 30%. If its (10+6)x2, that’s a gain of 60% from tributes. Seeing as tributes get all resources, but prominently get Glory, Gems and Gold Keys, this is impossible to ignore.

+10% Tribute Amount: probably means what it says. But this wouldn’t translate to Gems and Gold Keys.

+50% Souls: just argh

+2 Glory per battle: even on a 9 Glory battle, that’s still a gain of almost 20%, and most battles aren’t 9s. Base of hardest difficulty is at 4, where its a 50% gain.

SKILL BONUS (7d): +8 Armor, +8 Life, +3 Attack, +2 Magic
… as people have said already, if everyone in the top guilds is vsing other top guilds, this doesn’t mean a thing.

NEW LEAGUES: Extra Gold Bonus
… Gold is Gold. Probably doesn’t mean much either, but without the numbers we can’t tell.


Lose some, get some, its not the end of the world? Probably?

20 Likes

You were talking about the top 5 guilds. Dragon’s Peak isn’t one.
In Anonymous we are at around 3.5-4K gems per week. The other top 5 guilds are not very far from us in terms of trophies, so I supposed they are in the same range for gems.

It was enough to hunt for them, just not enough to actually reliably get them. We do a little bit more and I’m 2 for 5 on mythics, some of us have none, some of us have 3 of 5, etc. However, the recent change on how all new legendaries are introduced in the kingdom event first and not glory packs means if you have that many resources, its pretty much either-or. For the time being, I’m trying to keep up with the legendary releases rather than the mythic ones, because I know I at least have a decent chance at that. Not having every mythic was also much less of a concern before they started putting them in kingdoms and raising the star limit, though.

from my point of wiev gold keys are worth zero gems, whatever way you look at them couse they have zero chance to drop legend/mythic which is the ultimate value :stuck_out_tongue:

1 Like

If you’re hunting mythics though, Gem Keys are worth 10x the chance of a glory key… so good value there!

Minor Traitstones are a great big stepping stone and as far as currency is concerned, they only come from Gold Keys. Without them we can’t trait the legendaries, and once we get enough of them, we can trait up a lot more troops and get more kingdoms to higher power levels and get more everything.

Plus my math is based on those conversions I mentioned, nothing more. I don’t value the 5900 souls myself.

1 Like

yup! i wonder can someone actually calculate average ‘chance value’ (for legend and mythic respectively) of the top guilds income in old and new system to compare the actual ‘loss’ for that ‘marginal’ number of top players :stuck_out_tongue:

Why do you think you’re entitled to free mythics? 500 - 1000 gems and glory keys for free a week isn’t enough?

my income in the current system feels enough to be able to buy out the new legends and have a fair shot at mythics. just wondering about new task system how much less of a chance will it be.

edit: where did you see me saying i am antitled to free mythic?

There is no such thing as fair shot for mythics. They are supposed to be super super rare. And my guild, which is #1 in xbox guilds, is losing at least 80% of our normal gems and glory keys. You’re losing maybe 500 gems, I’m losing around 3000 gems a week. So you actually benefit and don’t even know it.

‘fair shot’ is what i consider a fair chance, who knows lets guess a cumulative 15% per month? whatever the number - just couse there is no definition of such phrase in your dictionary doesnt mean there is no such thing in common sense. putting that aside i do not understand what is your point ? what are you trying to say that i /as f2p/ dont deserve /insert value here/ ? or are you trying to just sting a fight?

2 Likes

Do you deserve winning the lottery? Everyone thinks so but not everyone can. Mythics are for the lucky few, not everyone. The ai is so bad anyways that you’ll always win almost all your invasions.

could you quit it please? i never said i am suppose to get a mythic every time and certainly not with the gem/key income i am getting anyway. what i was talking about was something different. you seem to just got stuck on trying to prove/convince me i am not entitled to become a martian.

9 Likes

Not really, since glory keys are compared in price to gems, not to gem keys (at least under the current system), and 10 gems equal a gem key, so the chance of mythic from 2000 glory keys is the same as the chance of mythic from 2000 gems.

Add to that all the resources you’ll get by opening glory keys (especially the glory and gems) which are not dropped by gem keys, and the fact that gems have other uses (event chests are a much higher value to an end-game player).

I got all past mythics just by opening glory keys, not a single gem spent. And all the glory that comes with it… This is what good value is, since I know I get something even if I don’t land a mythic. Opening gem chests means that if I don’t get it, I’m left with but a bunch of extra troops I already have at mythic anyway, so basically nothing.

1 Like

any chance I could bother you for the break-points for those? (as in, how often do those increase? iirc, the bonuses cap at lvl100 of the statues). Does that mean, the +xp and +souls have flat 1% each 2 lvls increase across all 100 lvls? And tribute amount each 10, chance each 16’ish?

Did you ever consider - at this stage of the game, where we have increasing numbers of ADVANCED and high end players - to implement some flat boosts that might allow new people to catch up easier?

What I mean is, for example, to activate a flat bonuses for lower levels (i.e. lvl’s 1->100 get +50% souls for every battle, separate bonus from armor/vip/difficulty, or double/tripple their glory reward from battles - hell, you could even double/tripple rewards from arena and TH for low lvls). I believe that souls and glory are safest and the most needed resources to catch up. Souls are self-explanatory. The glory allows new players to buy new troops and arcane stones (and if they get a lot of it, maybe even some glory chests for glory). The bonus(es) could have diminishing returns with lvl increase, (following my previous example, lvl101-150 25% souls bonus for example).

I’m not saying the numbers I listed are in any way balanced or viable. That would be something for you to decide. But I think this would be a safe way of allowing new people to catch up, without allowing for a crack which anyone can use/abuse to boost a high end guild (that would be the case if lower lvl players got a gold bonus for example).