Best Epic (and lower-rarity) Troops

After you get past the point where you are scraping to get together a team that works, the next question is, what of the sea of Common, Rare, Ultra-Rare, and Epic troops should I be focusing on? I think it’d be very helpful to assemble a list directed to helping these players, as well as more advanced players who have significant holes in their collections. The closest thing I was able to find to this kind of resource was this old thread.

Criteria:

  • Being usable in the endgame pvp/gw in tandem with higher-rarity troops. Think your empowered converters: they fill a unique niche.

  • Having good scaling abilities that permit use in all the higher-leveled content with higher-rarity troops. There are not many of these below Legendary rarity, which is why we also focus on…

  • Substitution: while players should eventually be able to accumulate all Legendary-rarity troops and below, Mythics are harder to obtain for all but the most hard-core players. Some troops are obsolete in the endgame, but can work as a decent substitute if a player doesn’t have the Mythics, and stand out as significantly better than their peers. This is especially true for the scaling content. I think it would be good to identify and mention these options as well. (Example: Rowanne. However, let’s not include troops like Zephyros, great early game pulls that don’t scale well enough to use in the endgame.)

  • Resource generation. This is why Sunbird and Firebomb are on the list. I’ve also included a handful of soul-generation troops, for those who must scrape by without Pharos-Ra.

  • No faction troops will be included - I’m focusing on chest pulls for now on this list.

Here is a starting point. Please let me know what I’m missing from the list (or if I included something that’s useless to endgame players).

(Note that there can be strong strength disparities; they just have to be late-game viable, not equal to each other.)

EDIT: See this post for an updated list.

Epic:
Apophisis
Asha
Aziris
Azura
Bul’Tauros
Dark Troll
Daughter of Ice
Erinyes
Faunessa
Fenrir
Fist of Zorn
Forest Troll
Gimlet Stormbrew
Green Seer
Hellcat
Lady Ironbeard
Mercy
Moon Rabbit
Nobend Brothers
Princess Fizzbang
Pyggra
Ragnagord
Rock Troll
Rowanne
Scurvy Seadog
Shadow-Hunter
Skrymir the Lofty
Stormsinger
Tai-Pan
Turtle Cannon

Ultra-Rare
Apothecary
Diviner
Egg Thief
Fire Giant
Florian
Giant Spider
Glutmaw
Herdmaster
Leprechaun
Minogor
Naga Queen
Nyx
Rover-300
Settite Warrior
Spirit Dancer
Sunbird
Wisp

Rare
Acolyte
Alchemist
Banshee
Clockwork Sphinx
Cockatrice
Dark Maiden
Greed
Moneylender
Valkyrie

Common
Fire Bomb

Idle, don’t get suckered in!

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sigh. ok ok

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The substitution troops are the ones I think I disagree with the most, on the whole – Rowanne is :heart: and can actually work decently (as well as having other uses), but things like Minogor, Settite Warrior and Shadow-hunter start to become a stretch for me. It’s not that they can’t work, it just starts to become a pain.

The other edge cases for me on the list would be Nyx, Florian, Fire Giant (just kind of ‘eh’ for me), Naga Queen, Fenrir, Nobends, Skrymir; maybe even Pyggra (although I know some love it…), Herdmaster, Fizzbang and Ragnagord (:scream: look away, Zepp!!!) – but I’d be more okay with those last three staying than some others.


For Commons, I’d include:
Bombot (Explore/Casual PvP viable)
Dwarven Gate
Humility(?)

Could potentially even argue for Thrall, Snowy Owl, Sentry Bot, other Guild Guardians/GW-reward troops.

Rares:
Sister Superior
Deck Hand (try Doomed Blade, Deck Hand, Tai Pan, with Firestorm)

Ethereal Sentry (if you ever decide to include Faction troops, or even just Faction Rares since they’re easy to get)

Maybe also Siren, Dwarven Zombie (can help a Brown Doomskull team run smoothly), Deep Borer (saw use on DE defence teams, could potentially work with Highforge on offence, too), Excavator (I don’t have a niche for him atm – I haven’t even looked – but I can see him potentially becoming useful at some point), Soothsayer (mana gen on Brown GW day, although perhaps outdated), Star Gazer; potentially even The Devoted, Templar, Mervorax (I don’t have a team for it myself). If you’re including Shadow-hunter, then Tigraki Warrior could probably go in (although I wouldn’t really use either that much).


I think I’ll stop there because I don’t feel like going through Ultra-Rares and Epics atm.

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Thanks for your input, it’s very helpful. I’m just as concerned about including too many troops as I am with missing somebody.

Off the bat, no problem striking Minogor, Settite Warrior, and Shadow-Hunter. There’s no reason to have to work to make something viable if the payoff isn’t worth it (and it often isn’t for the lower rarities)

As for the edge cases, I’m ok taking all the ones off you mentioned except two: Fire Giant and Fizzbang. Fire Giant’s gem creation on a kill gives it a leg up on many of the other 3x damagers; I’m still seeing people recommend the Jarl-FG combo on giant teams (over Jotnar!).

The exploder meta has changed dramatically with the advent of Leprechaun, so I can see why many of the ones I listed may be obsolete now. Fizzbang’s ability to dramatically increase Irongut’s devour chances might make her worth keeping on here, but maybe not though. Herdmaster gets cleanse-all on its spell too, making it the only other exploder you listed potentialy worth keeping on.

On to the troop suggestions:

Common

  • Are there situations where Bombot would be better to use than Fire Bomb?

  • I thought about including Dwarven Gate and Wall of Bones; but those don’t seem to useful anymore, except on gimmick teams? I could be wrong.

  • Humility is the best guild guardian, but I thought their gem creation was too random/unreliable. Let me know if you feel otherwise.

Rare

  • I had no idea people used Sister Superior. Is cleanse-all becoming that essential?

  • I’ll put Deck Hand back on. Unempowered single-converters seem to be on the way out, but Deck Hand is a special case, since it creates gems+converts (only Sheggra also does this).

  • Not to get sidetracked, but interesting that you thought highly of Ethereal Sentry. I though it was mainly a delve-only up-front troop, would you say it’s good to use in other modes?

I saw arguments for many of the other troops you listed, but like you didn’t really have teams in mind that would work at the highest level. Deep Borer in particular would’ve made the list if DE hadn’t been nerfed so hard.

Thanks again. I’d appreciate your thoughts on the Epics and Ultra-Rares!

:+1: I’d be okay with keeping it :stuck_out_tongue: :man_shrugging: – to an extent, I sometimes think about this from the perspective of, “If I was a new player [and I have done this on new accounts], which troops would I spend my precious souls on, knowing they’ll be useful later/in a range of teams?” Herdmaster isn’t one I’d upgrade immediately, but I’d keep my eye on it in case a situation came up that called for it.

They’re not exactly comparable, imo, but yes – Elspeth, 2x Bombot, Brown(-only) weapon hero (preferably Mechanist) is a known combo that works amazingly in Explore and low power Casual PvP. I tend to use other teams because I feel it’s a bit narrow and I’m trying to level all my classes – although someone was recommending it in Global last night for any class (not just Mechanist). Potentially boring, though, as well.

You’re right, really. I wouldn’t use them, nor have I seen them being used (although depends which mode we’re talking about, as well – definitely not PvP, more likely gimmicky teams for scaling PVE content), I was just thinking about troops that often get recommended earlier on. I’d say Dwarven Gate is different to the other Wall troops due to Barrier, allowing for safer/more gimmicky set ups. 2x Gate, Valkyrie, Tesla is an old combo, for example; 3x Gate and a stealthy Trickster’s shot; that kind of thing. That being said, I’m okay with it not being included, just depends on the exact criteria you want.

I don’t use it myself, so I wouldn’t really want to weigh in too much; I do know that some people still use it, and it definitely previously saw more use than it does now, afaik. A guildmate uses 3x Humility, Alchemist for Pet Rescues. I wouldn’t include it on any 3T PvP offensive team, I guess just thought it might be worth a mention for consideration.

I think it kind of is (although more late- than early-game). The Empowered part is important, too, along with no need for a particular board set up (like Mercy, e.g.). She was touted as one of the more categorically useless troops when she came out, but she’s since become useful in PvP against heroes that have Freeze/Entangle on start, and she can also be good for stunning enemy Webspinners, TPK, Wrath, Lust (for those without Obsidius, etc.). I’ve heard her mentioned as useful for high bracket GW (I’m in lower brackets), but not sure if that’s still relevant/up-to-date. Imo, tactically useful.

I think Green Slime does, as well? Deck Hand isn’t one of those troops that I rush to level up as a newbie, but against easier teams on Blue GW day or the start of a Blue ToD, the combo I mentioned can be nice if you don’t have a full collection. I think Deck Hand just works okay thanks to Tai Pan and the troops it can fill (not for 3T PvP, though).

I’ve used it with Irongut in Delves before, and I’ve seen some others do the same – I’m not an authority on high-level Delves, though. I’ve also found it amazing on a new account starting to tackle scaling content (pre-Mang) with Shield of Urskaya, Apothecary, Ethereal Sentry.

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That’s certainly my approach to Legendary troops, where the investment cost is so high that I’d think twice about wasting arcane/celestial traitstones. But for the purposes of this list, I wanted to deemphasize relative value, and just have a list of what’s currently useful.

In general, I’m trying to keep this list to end-game players, but the substitution troops make drawing a line trickier. I like how you phrased it before though - if “its starts to be a pain” to use them, then I’m trying not to include them.

The Elspeth-Bombot team is good to know about, I’ll add both to the next version of the list.

Likewise, I’ll add Sister Superior, at the very least as a substitution troop.

Yeah, I totally forgot about Green Slime when I posted earlier. It’s great you posted Deck Hand’s limitations as well. It’s sounding more like an early-game substitute troop, rather than a mid or late-game one, so I’m leaning towards waffling back and leaving it out now. It’s too bad it doesn’t have water link, or some other better traits.

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Indeed in delve with high king irongut.
Or in pvp with crown guardian who becomes a 1 hit tank.

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Sticking to “what’s currently useful”, then, including possible substitutions (i.e., “I could make a team for you with this troop for a particular mode and it would be decent/not a pain to use”), I would scratch Asha, maybe Herdmaster too (it’s a difficult one for me to judge, since I don’t tend to use explosion teams, so I’d want other opinions– I just don’t see myself using it, even as a substitute for Divinia), say Fizzbang scrapes in (maybe? Not my call, really, I don’t use her, but maybe others do), and assume Acolyte’s only there for soul gathering. Banshee, too, actually – fun and workable as an early game substitute, but no real uses late-game. Cockatrice would become an edge case, for me, with narrow usage.

Is Asha there as a substitute for cleaning up Blue Gems in a looping team? It’s a troop I’d consider more earlier on.

I’m starting to nitpick a bit, though, personally.

(Sorry Mithran if I disrupted what you were writing!)

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Maybe gimmicky but all the common Gate troops work great with Ethereal Sentry. Super cheap way to get huge skull dmg without Mang etc. Fortress gate is even impervious so cant be entangled, but doesn’t have any skull reduction like dwarven gate and wall of bones. I would usually use some form of Gate/Sentry combo for the old 3x Construct task days, can definitely be PVP viable too and many ways to fill the team out

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This is probably the most concise way to state the criteria I’m looking for, nice.

Actually I wasn’t thinking of Asha and Dark Maiden (which basically does the same thing) as substitutes for anything in particular. What would replace them? Seeing as looping is still important even in the endgame, it seems like those two occupy a pretty unique niche, letting the player choose what to do with blue and yellow gems (respectively) created by a converter, for example.

As for the other troops you mentioned, they’re all edge cases I’d like to hear more about as well. Right now, I’d lean towards Fizzbang being in, Herdmaster being out, Acolyte being out (decent in theory, but I can’t seem to find a soul-farming team that it works with), and Banshee being in. Banshee effectively generates the most souls/cast in the game, and I think is a bit overlooked for that purpose. I’ve heard Cockatrice gets some use on delve teams, so that probably just gets in too.

I didn’t know about these kinds of teams, clever! While I don’t think we need a substitute for Mang, which everyone will have mid-game, I can see some major advantages of freeing up the hero to use other weapons, such as MC or Rope Dart.

For Common, I think Dire Wolf could be of some use

Thanks for this thread!

Could someone break down the suggestions by color for Guild Wars? I’m starting my first GW, and yellow is probably my weakest color (my “strong” teams have been using Half-Mane).

Of course, what I put in my team probably won’t make much difference, since I’m being matched against someone literally 900 levels above me.

Breaking things down by color would be a big job, especially since many of these are converters and you’d want to know what colors they convert. Your best bet is to just poke around the kingdoms page on gowdb, which has the colors of every troop listed, and just do some searching around.

I will tell you, on offense for yellow days, Green Seer may come in handy. Particularly if you have Elwyn, or somebody better who can capitalize on the green gems she creates.

For early-game players, no doubt. Dire Wolf has unusually good features for an early-game front-line troop. However, I’m trying to figure out what scales best to late game content, does Dire Wolf still have use once you have access to most Legendary and Epic-rarity troops?

We’ve had some troop additions, a kingdom rework, and a lot of feedback and input here, so I think it merits an updated list. Thanks to everybody who critiqued the first list version, and let me know if you think the list needs further updates!

(The rare faction troops, which are easy to get early, are denoted by an *)

Epic:
Asha
Aziris
Azura
Bul’Tauros
Dark Troll
Daughter of Ice
Desert Troll
Erinyes
Faunessa
Flame Troll
Forest Troll
Gimlet Stormbrew
Green Seer
Hellcat
Lady Ironbeard
Lord Ember
Mercy
Moon Rabbit
Princess Elspeth
Rock Troll
Rowanne
Scurvy Seadog
Sea Troll
Skeleros
Stormsinger
Tai-Pan
Turtle Cannon
Wall of Tentacles

Ultra-Rare
Apothecary
Diviner
Egg Thief
Fire Giant
Giant Spider
Glutmaw
Leprechaun
Rover-300
Spirit Dancer
Sunbird
Wisp

Rare
Alchemist
Banshee
Clockwork Sphinx
Dark Maiden
*Ethereal Sentry
Greed
Moneylender
Sister Superior
Valkyrie
*Watch Mother

Common
Bombot
Dwarven Gate
Fire Bomb
Fortress Gate
Wall of Bones

(Stealth edited to remove Fizzbang, where I am relenting to the fact that there are faster and more reliable ways of boosting Irongut’s stats, and add the other three mono-color trolls.)

A couple questions I’m mulling over:

  • Is Wisp used at all anymore other than for defense? I’m not seeing a lot of talk about it these days, and was considering dropping it from the list.

  • I’m also hearing that Leprechaun may be a better choice than Greed on the gold team, does anybody have any thoughts there? I can def see the argument, as Leprechaun can more quickly get Egg Thief going, which is important as the gold team is most vulnerable early in the round.

I do use Wisp in Guild Wars. Its not a troop many people use anymore, but its still definitely usable.

I don’t care for Leprechaun in the gold team. Sure, you get mana, but you have a wimpier Egg Thief/Skeleton Key on first cast. Sometimes you’ll cascade and win, and other times, you’ll have nothing to show for anything.

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Amira should make the list. She’s the highest ranking troop for both Wargare AND Rogue, neither of which have a legendary troop (only 2 types that don’t). And she’s the new Luther! So I guess what I’m really saying is, buff Amira? :fox_face:

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LOL. I mean, at least give her a blue hatred trait so she matches the recently-buffed gnolls?

Thanks for the reply Idle, good to know that Greed vs Leprechaun is still an active debate.

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