Maybe gimmicky but all the common Gate troops work great with Ethereal Sentry. Super cheap way to get huge skull dmg without Mang etc. Fortress gate is even impervious so cant be entangled, but doesn’t have any skull reduction like dwarven gate and wall of bones. I would usually use some form of Gate/Sentry combo for the old 3x Construct task days, can definitely be PVP viable too and many ways to fill the team out
This is probably the most concise way to state the criteria I’m looking for, nice.
Actually I wasn’t thinking of Asha and Dark Maiden (which basically does the same thing) as substitutes for anything in particular. What would replace them? Seeing as looping is still important even in the endgame, it seems like those two occupy a pretty unique niche, letting the player choose what to do with blue and yellow gems (respectively) created by a converter, for example.
As for the other troops you mentioned, they’re all edge cases I’d like to hear more about as well. Right now, I’d lean towards Fizzbang being in, Herdmaster being out, Acolyte being out (decent in theory, but I can’t seem to find a soul-farming team that it works with), and Banshee being in. Banshee effectively generates the most souls/cast in the game, and I think is a bit overlooked for that purpose. I’ve heard Cockatrice gets some use on delve teams, so that probably just gets in too.
I didn’t know about these kinds of teams, clever! While I don’t think we need a substitute for Mang, which everyone will have mid-game, I can see some major advantages of freeing up the hero to use other weapons, such as MC or Rope Dart.
Breaking things down by color would be a big job, especially since many of these are converters and you’d want to know what colors they convert. Your best bet is to just poke around the kingdoms page on gowdb, which has the colors of every troop listed, and just do some searching around.
I will tell you, on offense for yellow days, Green Seer may come in handy. Particularly if you have Elwyn, or somebody better who can capitalize on the green gems she creates.
For early-game players, no doubt. Dire Wolf has unusually good features for an early-game front-line troop. However, I’m trying to figure out what scales best to late game content, does Dire Wolf still have use once you have access to most Legendary and Epic-rarity troops?
We’ve had some troop additions, a kingdom rework, and a lot of feedback and input here, so I think it merits an updated list. Thanks to everybody who critiqued the first list version, and let me know if you think the list needs further updates!
(The rare faction troops, which are easy to get early, are denoted by an *)
(This list is up-to-date, but I have arranged them in a different format in the list below.)
Daughter of Ice
Wall of Tentacles
(Stealth edited to remove Fizzbang, where I am relenting to the fact that there are faster and more reliable ways of boosting Irongut’s stats, and add the other three mono-color trolls.)
A couple questions I’m mulling over:
Is Wisp used at all anymore other than for defense? I’m not seeing a lot of talk about it these days, and was considering dropping it from the list.
I’m also hearing that Leprechaun may be a better choice than Greed on the gold team, does anybody have any thoughts there? I can def see the argument, as Leprechaun can more quickly get Egg Thief going, which is important as the gold team is most vulnerable early in the round.
I do use Wisp in Guild Wars. Its not a troop many people use anymore, but its still definitely usable.
I don’t care for Leprechaun in the gold team. Sure, you get mana, but you have a wimpier Egg Thief/Skeleton Key on first cast. Sometimes you’ll cascade and win, and other times, you’ll have nothing to show for anything.
Amira should make the list. She’s the highest ranking troop for both Wargare AND Rogue, neither of which have a legendary troop (only 2 types that don’t). And she’s the new Luther! So I guess what I’m really saying is, buff Amira?
We’ve had some time since the Wild Plains rework, what are people’s thoughts on the reworked gnoll family (Gnoll, Savage Hunter, Wild Fang, Bane Jaw)? With their hatred and bloodlust traits, it would seem that they are useful as glass cannon front troops on skull/doomskull teams.
Similar question re: Minogor, who as a beast type with bloodlust and armor-piercing would seem to be a pretty good front troop on beast looping teams.
No takers on those five? I’ll take them off in that case.
We’ve been on a bit of a streak for good Epics, with Volthrenax and Lamashtu arriving on the list in September. Adding both to the list.
I noticed that pretty much all gem creators have been eliminated from the list, except for Moneylender and the Turtle Cannon-types. Is there still a niche for them, or are the trolls just better, more reliable gem creators these days?
Minogor packs a whole punch after the rework, having pretty much the largest single target damage output in non-legendary/mythic area (Earthcaller has a bit higher initial damage, due to higher inherent stats, but Minogor can buff its damage output via traits).
Red Charlotte should make the list too, I’d say. Pretty low nominal damage, but instant refill (with egg thief or thief+bronzelock pistol on team) and can shoot every single turn.
Spirit fox can be as annoying and deadly on offense as on defense. Empowered stealthy true damage dealer, with minuscule mana cost, and mana drainer to top the cake.
I did add a couple of rare-level faction troops by popular request (since they’re easier to get for early-game players), but generally am omitting them from this list, wanting to focus on troops available in chests (Harpy Mage is amazing though).
I do think Minogor is pretty good too, almost exclusively because of its traits. The combo of armor-piercing+bloodlust mean it can really do some damage via skulls. Its spell hits pretty hard too, though I feel it needs some form of external stat buffing to really be dangerous. What kind of teams are you using it with?
Did you mean Bonnie Rose (Red Charlotte is the siegebreaker troop)? She’s another borderline case. I feel like she’s been rendered obsolete with the Skeleton Key usually filling her role, making me hesitant to include her, but maybe I overlooked something?
I have some experience with Spirit Fox on offense, as a Spiritdancer summon. It’s not bad for a summoned troop, but I don’t think it’s particularly good on offense. There are a lot of high-end troops with mana drain immunity, after all, and we’re seeing more true damage options available these days. Are there good endgame options using Spirit Fox?
No backers for the gem creators (Moneylender and the Turtle-Cannon types), who I guess are not relevant now that we have more reliable troll and converter options. I’ll take them off for the next revision.
Since my last post, we’ve gotten new arrivals Moira Cragheart and Kryshound. I was looking to add both to the list - Moira’s a lock, but I’m a bit less sure about Kryshound. In theory it will make true damage troops a bit better in scaling content, but will it make enough of a difference to justify changing the existing teams? Would welcome some opinions there.
Other troops that I was taking another look at are Astral Spirit (bane of empowered converters) and Royal Engineer (since he got buffed, he seems like he’d be useful on scaling content with armor-based troops like Rowanne and Tesla). Any thoughts on those two?
I use minogor mainly in full tauros teams, with chief strongholm, minogor, soothsayer and sometimes earthcaller. It’s the opposite to skull spam teams, as it packs a huge skill damage potential, perfect vs tank teams (or to take out first liners like gorgotha, bulette and stonehammer).
I meant the siegebreaker, Red Charlotte. She’s selfrefilling, instant refill together with egg thief, and can shoot every single turn without being dependant on a refill loop.
Spirit fox is the perfect counter vs certain meta teams, together with astral spirit, while having less mana costs. Things like rope dart for example, oe skeleton key, depend on empowered converters to loop and win. Spirit fox takes away that part, being an empowered mana drainer itself. So far there’s no empowered stealthy/mana drain immune converters…
Kryshound is great in all scaling contents, as it’s damage scales with the enemy. Shoot it vs a 500 life/500 armor enemy, and it will deal 250 life/250 armor damage. Also is great for filling blue troops, like Moira. Or for spamming blue for troops like King Bloodhammer.
I agree for sure Kryshound is good for low-level players on scaling content. My question is if he’s good enough to displace/supplement the options end-game players already have. Would he have a place on Megavore teams, for example, on delves where you can’t use HKI?
That’s a good point re: Spirit Fox. Event though I have my doubts about the utility of defensive troops like it and Astral Spirit in the current game (since they would take the slot of your own empowered mana kick-starter), I’ll include them on the next list.
Minogor still seems a bit borderline IMO. Yeah he’s good for full Tauros teams, but that team isn’t great overall, and wouldn’t see use in general pvp or GW. Is he worth trying with beast-based rope-dart teams, perhaps?
As for Red Charlotte, I get what you’re saying, but we’re still talking 28 damage/cast, with no other side benefits (besides the “greedy” trait). Unless I’m missing something, there are just too many other options, even on gold-based teams, for her to be useful to non-early game players.
I’ve got a handful of edge cases I’ve been thinking of lately, anybody have any thoughts on these?
Sunweaver, a Tauros-event-only troop, or better? I’m trying to avoid including type (or kingdom)-limited event troops on the list, but she might be better than that. Her speed and stat boosting may make her good on scaling content, does anybody use her?
Volthrenax: This troop does more damage than any other Epic troop (and more than many Legendaries), but is just doing damage enough these days to merit use on endgame teams?
The Guild Wars commons (Aurai, Myzmer, etc): The team-wide stat boost from their third trait is costly, but I figure it could be good to use, especially on teams with summoners (e.g., use these troops as meat shields and substitute with a summon).