Your favorite super good cool team :)

Hey im on ps4, im the guildmaster of the botanist club (sorry its full atm) and doing quite good aside from sometimes dealing with ptw players who are herolevel 15 or so and have max boosted epic cards i tend to win alot of pvp, had a mad streak going for a while. What can i say im just a puzzlehead and think ahead like a chess game even though this game is alot more luck based and it actually happened to me that my full team that i even had skillboosted died to the last enemy card that only had 3 hp due to a never ending top x4 extra turn free x3 skulls spree, really a slap in the face considering that was a pvp match against a ptw player that i managed to outthink regardless… but ok that aside the way i play is by denying the enemy not only their gemcolors but setting them up for false positives. I often give away free skulls so i can get much ahead in the rest of my abillities.

My current team that i will only swap out one card in in the future is:

hero with sunjavelin (will get another weapon eventually)(yellow). zombie (purple), berserker(blue/red), luther(brown). I will eventually swap out luther for summoner and focus completely on spam boosting the hp of my team. The thought behind this is creating a ultra zombie tank seeing as he easily full heals himself again and the higher his max health the more impossible to take him down he becomes while also able to raise his attack on a chance, so i will eventually outlast every other team even if it will take me an hour a match, why not a card that directly boosts hp? Well cause of berserker being the main damager, he only takes 2 hp to use his skill but gains 4 every summoner spell. Go figure.

So yeah that was the super good cool team i was going to build.

Whats yours?

ps4 - wskill - botanist club.

I had Summoner alongside Black Beast. Black Beast would eat up the troop in the front row, then Summoner would fill the front spot back up with stuff for the Beast to eat.
Was a lot of fun but also very slow going.

oh yeah almost forgot summoner could create orcsies, i was thinking of putting zombie in the first slot to be the damage soak and berserker in the second incase zombie kicked the bucket or i let him be killed at a point in time where bers will just oneshot everything on the field anywya but now that i think of it thats a bad idea vs charm. Im not really into different team setups for different scenarios yet since i dont have multiple decks to begin with, i do have alot of cards, just got a skeleton and a rock worm or whatever its name is, the one with the burrow skill everyone swears by but i dont like meta decks and premade strategies, im too much of a spider, i need to make my own webs. :wink: I also have black beast and tried him a bit, hes lvl 5 now i think but he just didnt fit into my team yet. Cant wait till i get lucky and get summoner he will really complete my current deck plan. Greets.

You are in a guild, so the most important prerequisite of getting loads of troops fast has been met :slight_smile: Loads of Iron Keys will mean loads of troops, so you should have Summoner in no time :slight_smile:

My members so far havent been ‘that’ openwalletty. I did just get 2k from some completion so spent that toward opening a new area and the next 2k (300short atm so wont take long) toward another. So my overal income will rise a bit. Im pvp lvl 4 (so pretty high i guess) atm and dont think ill risk losing that again as i made a loss streak before from lvl 4 back to lvl 5 cause i was tilting a bit over the ptw players that were much lower level than their maxed out cards. Then again last player i beat had some sick cards aswell but i invested a ton into my berserker enough to completely headbash his team trough the ceiling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHkuTap5diU

Yeah, right now prioritize getting all kingdom stories if you haven’t, to unlock the epic card for each one of them.

Doing my best but even with gold being thrown into my lap here and there i keep getting cheaped out of effort by free critical skulls thrown into the enemy’s lap 24/7. This game can be encumberingly infuriating. When that happens twice in a row its bad enough but i just had this shit happen to me 4 times in a row and am starting to just "rage"quit from now on.

There are scientific studies about this subject why videogames invoke violence, for a long time they thought violent videogames sparked violence but it is something entirely different also noticed in monkey behavior, it is the feeling of being sabotaged, the feeling of something being unfair and hopeless that sparks anger, aggression and violence. This game has a severe toxicity to it and thats horrible since its an addictive game… but i guess its like this for all things toxic, they can only survive on addiction.

Something you should know about random drops. Yes enemy does get random skull drops, but so do you. You just don’t notice yours as much as theirs (it’s in the human nature to better remember bad stuff then the good stuff). Even more your opponents has combo breaker on him (which stops him from getting more then 3-4-5 matches from random drops, I’m not sure after how many drops breaker actives). So you are actually more likely to get plenty of matches on gems dropping then your opponent. If you don’t believe yet, try conducting a test. Each time you or your opponent get a skull match from gem dropping write it down (1,2,3,4,etc. in 2 columns, 1 for you, 1 for the enemy). See who reaches 100 faster (sample should be large enough to show a pattern and chances). You’ll see there’s no reason to be mad :wink:

Well there is reason to be mad when you play against someone with extremely buffed cards and equal level, you still by taking your time manage to outplay his cards but his last card gets a nearly infinite freaking extra turn and drop skull spree killing all your cards in one or two rounds. This happens to me a bit too often. And i do try to remember when it happens to me and believe me it hasnt yet, best ive gotten was a crit for free, once. Yes once… vs atleast 3 a day from enemy.

This is what @sirrian said about the exact situation you are talking about.

"Just wanted to confirm for you that there is ZERO artificial bias towards the AI player.
We made all of our AI/Gem-Matching code in Puzzle Quest 2 & Galactrix publicly available, and anybody who looked at it could confirm that there was no cheating taking place.
It’s a string of bad luck you’ve seen.

In fact, starting at level one, and gradually decreasing in frequency right up to level 30 (in non-PvP games only) we try to catch a lot of lucky breaks that the AI gets and cancel them out. At around level 5-7 for example, you would expect to see 2:1 odds in favor of the human.

Next section is for anyone who’s interested in game design and this recall bias stuff.
If not TL;DR… We ran some tests and recall bias is surprisingly strong.

Back when we were working on the original Puzzle Quest (pre-release) we kept hearing from testers about how the AI cheated, or how the suggested matches had been engineered to be the worst possible match. We even felt that ourselves sometimes, though, having written the AI in 2 hours, I actually knew that nothing sinister was taking place.

So we decided to do some usability test geared towards learning more about players’ perceptions of luck. We had the game log “lucky drops” when they happened, and register whether they were for the human or the AI player. We also created a version that cheated in the Human’s favor, so we could test some extreme results. A lucky drop was defined as one of 3 things: a cascade that was unforeseeable because at least one of the gems dropped in, OR a skull that dropped in to a perfect position for a match , OR any gem that dropped in to set up a 4/5 of a kind for the player.

I don’t have the actual numbers on hand, but here were a few findings from the first round of testing:
Players were asked to rate how lucky the AI player was on a scale from 1-9, where 1 = Player Way luckier than the AI, 5 = Equal Luck, and 9 = AI Way luckier than the player

If the AI had greater than 20% extra lucky drops: 9: AI Extremely lucky
If the Player & AI had roughly Equal Lucky Drops (within 10-20% of each other): 7 = AI Very Lucky
If the Human had about twice as many lucky drops as the AI: 5 = Equal luck
If the Human had more than twice as many drops, it varied, but we finally saw numbers under 5
So unless a human player is TWICE AS LUCKY as an AI, they perceive it’s cheating. I found that astounding. But here is where it gets interesting, and this is not taking a shot at you, wasted, I’m just sharing some data from our testing, that showed recall bias is such a crazy trick that our brains play on us, that its effects can be surprising.

So… now, after the first round of testing, we asked the players in the test to do it a second time and to count how many times they thought they were lucky compared to the AI. We wanted them to log their results, to see if they could arrive at a position of understanding that the AI didn’t cheat.

Once again I don’t have the numbers, and I’m working from memory, so this is an approximate summary:
Results for 10 Players.

1 Tester accurately recorded the lucky drops (within about 10% of what was logged)
4 Players accurately recorded the AI lucky drops (within 10%), but under-counted Human Lucky drops by about 10%-80%
5 Players over counted the AI lucky drops (10%-50%), but under-counted Human Lucky drops by about 10%-100%
It’s a small sample size of 10 people. But the results are quite interesting I think."

6 Likes

Perfect explanation of my post right there.
In fact I can say that number of matches I won with only 1 card remaining while opponent had 3 or 4 is maybe 4-5 times higher then the number of matches opponent won when in that situation. I don’t even recall opponent ever winning with 1 card while I had all 4 of my troops.
And I’m playing with combo breaker turned off for AL (it felt unfair for me to get better drops then enemy, I like to play in the way that my skill of playing win, not by having it easier the opponent).

You have to read between the lines.
Zero artificial bias. Very carefully worded. @Sirrian is not ruling out the chance that the code may have become self-aware and developed a completely natural bias all by itself.

Thanks @Machiknight for posting this! I didn’t see it the first time around (I wasn’t here at the start), but find it very interesting still. Glad you could hunt it down and share with us.

I know one thing that triggers my “recall bias” pretty strongly is when the computer makes what appears to be a really dumb move only to have it turn into a gem / skull cascade. It makes it seem like the computer “knew” that cascade was going to happen, otherwise why would it make such an obviously bad move? I have to remind myself of all the times the computer makes a dumb move and I laugh at it and kick its tail. I remember that being a huge thing in PQ1 because the moves were incredibly random there. In the non-console version of GoW the AI follows very strict guidelines that reduce that feeling a lot for me. I understand why it makes the moves it does (usually) and thus luckiness on it’s part doesn’t seem so unfair. On the console edition I find myself having to remember constantly that the computer is just making completely random (or at least seemingly so) moves so it doesn’t irritate me too much. :smiley:

-Razlath

I’ve found memory bias particularly interesting from the moment I started playing Gems of War.

I’ve never felt cheated while playing this game. Unfortunate occasionally? Of course! But then I remember how many battles I’ve won versus the opponent, all the dumb move the AI’s made before, and how boring a game it’d be if I won 100% of the time.

Then I noticed people frequently leaving bad feedback of the game because of a few losses on Steam, and I’m just like “Seriously…?”

I’ve been intrigued ever since, and I while I can say the the cascade cut-off in hard mode does show more kindness to the AI, I don’t see any difference from my turns when comparing. Though I have caught myself experiencing recall bias once or twice, frustration’s a funny thing.

Anyways, point is I wanted to thank you for posting this, Machiknight, helps me better understand where these negative reviews were coming from, as well as better understanding myself.

2 Likes

i do quit to xmb alot (ps4) when i see that there is no way ill get a comeback, call it spite, call it rage, i call it reserving my sanity. I get why this game is so “fun” now, its just a giant slot machine with a whiff of false sense of control/deckbuilding. And though decks can give you an edge they, not preparation and careful considerate play wont guarantee you a win. I can be fine with that i guess, i still play this game from time to time but i also refuse to accept cheap losses, and i know i do accept cheap wins but thats because i want the goddamn gold so i can buy keys. ;;l

Anyway currently i roll with the following deck and i was wondering if that was aight, its concentrates abit on killing the last cards quiker while building my bers for top row executions, but ive met plenty of decks already that completely destroyed mine, aside from constantly being matched against players that are literally twice my level (and im lvl30ish)(yes im being matched against lvl60 players ive even screenshotted these occurances and they are stacking lately)
Im not at my ps4 atm so this contains estimates:

-Hero with torch/red gem summon item.
-Berserker lvl 9 i think.
-Dryad lvl 6 i think.
-Giant wormthing lvl 8 or 9.

I kinda want to get the bearzbarian card badly atm but ok.
Also rolled with a shaman for a bit instead of the worm to get dryad to make plays, maybe i should get back to that cause aside wormthing being powerful if you are unlucky enough to barely get browns on the screen hes useless.

What do you guys think? Im generally unlucky in cards i get but i do have a LOT of cards, almost all broken spire cards even but i dont have the souls to build them. ;l
way too expensive for me and i dont want to play arena cause i dont feel like im lucky enough for winning it.

Hey there! My team I’ve been using quite literally has not lost and wins 90% of arena defenses. All cards are maxed and my hero is level 48.

Up first is my hero using Sacred Bow. I don’t use this ability often nor prioritize it when playing the puzzles. It is green. I usually only use it well… I’ll explain in a bit.

Second is Raven (Epic) This guy is a machine of an assassin. His ability costs 10 red/blue mana, and hits for 10 damage. If it kills the opponent, he is refunded mana back to 9/10. He has an attack of 8 and 6 armor with 15 hp. I use him as cleanup.

Third is my bread and butter and absolute first priority, Sacred Guardian (Ultra Rare). He uses brown/yellow and only requires 11 mana. His ability hits for 8 damage and also grants him 8 armor. He comes with 7 attack, 11 armor and 13 hp. I prioritize him the entire time, and usually end up winning with this guy sitting around 60 armor. He’s a beast.

And finally I have Kerberos (legendary) . He fills the purple spot and I prioritize purple as third priority. Though I rarely get to use his ability (a whopping 16 mana), when I do he hits for 10 with a 25% chance to devour the enemy, effectively killing them and absorbing their attack, health and armor. He’s pretty stout with 10 attack, 6 armor and 17 health. When he devours his targets, it’s absolutely a win.

So while sacred guardian wrecks everything, my hero tickles people and Raven finishes them off. Kerberos is the ace in the hole where when he is used, has a chance to automatically win the match.

The absolute best and most overpowered thing I’ve seen in this game is the ability to not only buff your health pool, but do damage as well. And sacred guardian has that. It’s absolutely ridiculous.

Your hero sounds a bit weak though, i would use some utility on your hero instead of a weapon but thats just me maybe, ive considered using a ‘armor’ build but i figured theres too much true damage later on in the game so investing in it might not be practical.

I love the team I made; it wins like 90% of the time. basically only loose when the enemy goes on a combo or some how screws me over. it even won against the GORGOTHA fight at Khaziel (the second fight with it, where it has 50 hp and like 10 armor + 3 other units that dish out dmg.) it took me 3 trys. 1st time i got annihilated by everything falling into place. second time, it had 5 hp left, then 3rd time i destroyed it easily.

It consists of (in order of position) Orion (Yellow/green, 11) with max attk of 9, 12 armor and health, and ability dmg of 3-17 and gain 5 magic (seems to me, last time i checked it was 3-22…could be his magic was increased at that time) he’s good for holding the line and in early game i will try to get his ability up b4 he dies, so i can take a chunk out of thier hp b4 he dies, though sometimes he only hits for 3, but when he hits for 14+, it slaughters anything you hit.,Wight (red/blue, 10) with max stats, attk of 6, health 5, and def 12, ability of steal 6 life and create 5 purple gems. (steal life adds to your current hp even if you havent lost any; i have had upto like 30 hp b4. hes good for taking out low hp and weakened enemies and for storing up hp to postpone it from being killed, giving your other units time to attk. rock worm (brown, 8) , with max stats, has 6 attk, 3 def, 14 hp, ability does 7 dmg to last enemy and creates 7 brown orbs (if you get lucky, you will atleast replenish it’s mana for next turn, but sometimes you can get really lucky and be able to attk 3+ times in a row b/c the orbs keep forming in atlease one group of 4+. (it seems you always get bonus mana (4 instead of 3) with this troop, so it only takes 2 sets of 3 mana to get it full. boar rider(purple/green, 9), with max stats of 7 attk, 5 def, 12 hp, ability is remove a row and deal 8 dmg to first enemy and gain extra turn. if the board is set up right, you can get a 4+ mana line up, line up skulls so you can switch 1 and get it, doing 9 dmg (b/c of orion has 9 atk) and with wight’s ability to create 5 purple orbs, you will occasionally get some free mana for boar rider.

In my opinion this team the the most optimal set-up being as how it has 1 of each element. and they all fill pretty easily except for orion but he is mainly just a wall to take dmg and sometimes a cannon to dish out dmg if you save up enough mana b4 he dies. I just sort of came accross this combination of troops , got orion and wight out of early packs (i bought the $5 bundle and used the magic keys, i think is where i got orion b/c he is legendary) and boar rider is given to you in the begining of the game as one of your starting units. (i think, maybe i got him in a pack but i remember just having him after a few battles) i got to use rock worm in the arena with some other brown mana troops and it was amazing, b/c the worm would get extra mana sometimes and fill up everyone below it. and as soon as i got it in a pack, i started training it.

Currently getting a bit bored with my optimal team, my main team is (all lvl15) gloomleaf, celestasia, skeleton, goblin king. my defence team swapped out celestasia with tau because AI doesnt know he needs to use celestasia on skeleton to rush gloomleaf skulls.

Was thinking of making a completely different secondairy team, yesterday threw 10k into iron keys hoping id get a new legendary or a card i didnt have yet or something like herdmaster but only crappy cards ;l just one ultra rare (chimaera) that i already had.

Ohwell.

I was looking at rowanne and thinking how shed fit greatly with a paladin but then again it feels roundabout to play that way when i already have such an optimal deck. I just would like something completely different. Although i do only dabble in board control and have no interest in playing dependant on skill damage. So that means decks with heavy color manipulations. I do have jarl and every match against one was always difficult but i dunno … shame theres so little cards in the ps4 version, almost own all of them save a few legendaries etc.

Guess what; with the new traitsystem on ps4 now i finally saw use for my earlier idea, my team is now coronet, crimson bat, templar, rowanne. Looking to replace crimsn bat eventually with something more synergetic, well see. Team is a blast, super fun to play.