No, the issue is with Bone Dragon. A lump of contiguous skulls, even if there’s 30 of them, should count as ONE match.
I’m not struggling with these teams. This is the same issue as with Maw before the nerf - it’s flat out fluke annoying. It’s not that these teams are tough at all, I’ve beat them plenty of times.
Here’s a turn-by-turn of a match I had last night against a team of Orion / 2xCourage / BD.
1st turn
- with a purple/brown dominant board, he ends turn with BD 11/14 charged
2nd turn - purple match 4 fills BD and gives extra move
- BD unloads spell, 2 x Courage buffs Orion to 88 attack
- Orion one-shots my Gorgotha
- residue from BD spell leaves multiple match-4 opportunities
- Orion one-shots my 2nd troop and gets extra turn
- Orion one-shots my 3rd troop
All of this happened on the SECOND turn.
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If you want to call it whining, fine.
But constantly? I think not. I’ve often been on the “no nerf” side of these arguments.
By the way, what level are you? At my level, the only way to avoid teams like this is to just not play PVP. Does that sound like things are working as intended?
It shouldn’t. Courage’s 3rd trait says:
“All allies gain 3 Attack and Life on Skull gem matches”
Meaning, the number of matches is what matters, not the number of skulls.
So skull match mechanics is the issue then.
Ultimately yes. However, that may prove very difficult to fix. In the interim, they need to consider doing something else.
For the record, some of us have long thought Bone Dragon was OP. It was only obscured by even more OP troops, but has now swung back as some of the power creep has been curbed.
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I want to beleive it is op, and it is when the meta is correct for it, however when the meta shifts once more, bone dragon will lose his usefulness again. When that will be, i do not know. Would we call bone dragon balanced, if his usefulness is based on the meta?
His usefulness isn’t based on the meta, it’s based on power creep. The meta will shift again, but armor values are NEVER going to go down, they’re only going to go up.
Most of my troops are mythic and fully-traited - they start the match with anywhere from 45 to 65 armor, sometimes higher. That’s instant death based solely on the way BD’s damage scales with armor.
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Still don’t see the issue when there are troops doing far worse. I don’t quit matches when I see Bone Dragon. I do Quit when I see EK, Mab, Mercy & Valkyrie. Wonder why that is… perhaps because effects that occur on 4 and 5 gem matches will always overpower a one time skill that probably will never go off if you play your gems right.
Bone Dragon is not a problem. Even people complaining here admit they don’t have problems beating him. The freeze effect taking away extra turns randomly is far worse that an occasional devour.
Also the double Courage effect we have talked about and obviously that is a problem. Nothing to do with Bone Dragon.
Actually EK / Mab teams are MUCH easier to beat than Bone Dragon / Manticore or Bone Dragon / Courage teams.
On the annoying scale EK / Mab is about a 5 while anything with Bone Dragon is easily 7 or higher (depends on the number of Courages).
Also, there’s no way to “play your gems right” short of running a pure looping team with Empowered like Mercy. BD’s spell costs 14 mana and is nearly guaranteed to kill the first troop in a team for high level players.
While being frozen and stunned slows a match down, at least it’s still a 4 on 4 level playing field. Fighting Bone Dragon is essentially 3 on 4 because you’re going to lose at least one troop on turn 2 or 3 at the latest.
That’s not true, but I can see you are stuck on BD as the problem so I will leave it be. As I said before BD is weak and will die before it ever goes off. I crush most teams before that 14 is ever close to full and even if it does go off it doesn’t end the game unless there is double courage which we already discussed and I agree should be fixed.
A 4 gem match causing a freeze that blocks your transformers and makes the AI stomp you is a much more real threat and there is no counter besides cleanse. I assume you are running a Mab team which is why you are protecting her and don’t think the freeze is a problem, when it is so obvious that it is. I guess when both teams are frozen it doesn’t matter as much.
Mab’s third trait is strong, and yes, annoying, but far from being broken and certainly never made the AI stomp anyone. If Mab is on the other team, just don’t rely on loops, or take a cleanse.
Bone Dragon on the other hand literally does lead to your team being stomped, and loss of at least one, often two troops, for only 14 mana.
Agree, never lose to these teams even if the RNG goes against me. Whereas a bad roll and turn two Bone Dragon cast ends the match against those others.
Against BD teams it is generally a race between me charging my Famine and he charging his Bone Dragon. The only reason I typically manage to win this race is because I skull bait whatever is up front (as that isn’t dangerous yet without a buff).
As Famine is down below and blocked on yellow by Valkyrie, brown by EK it is isn’t so easy. I only really bring him for the combination of third trait and backup control. Fortunately I use +2 yellow banner.
And if I lose that race, I indeed lose first or first two troops and then it becomes a 15 minute game for my Valkyrie+Famine to win against the other troops (or just outright lose if he manages to get it off again). With a Courage in the opposing team I lose first two troops and basically have no chance on winning as I cannot skull bait in the reminder of the game.
And my armor values are only in the 30-40 range…
Currently, I don’t run any Mab teams. Or Khorvash teams (his 3rd trait is a lot like hers). So I’m not protecting her, no.
At my level, I can survive being frozen dozens of times, on all 4 troops. Had a match like that last night in fact, where all 4 of my troops were stunned AND frozen for most of the match. Slow? Sure. Frustrating? A little. As annoying as Bone Dragon auto-killing half my team just because he was able to cast first? No even close.
You say don’t rely on loops or take a cleanse for Mab. Then why don’t you take a summoner or transformer for BD. Problem solved.
I do have summoners and transformers. You’re missing the point.
Bone Dragon’s spell costs 14 mana. At my level, he’s charged in AT MOST 3 turns. 90% of the time, he’s charged in two. His spell is automatic. It kills the first troop 95% of the time AND grants an extra turn 100% of the time. About 50% of the time, there are match-4 skulls left over, resulting in the death of the 2nd, and possibly 3rd, troops.
If BD is in the 3rd or 4th slot (which he always is at my level), then the only way to get to him is AOE or targeted damage. Unfortunately, he has nearly 90 combined armor and life so AOE is pretty much out. The only troops that can kill him before turn 2 with any reliability are like Paladin or Shadow Hunter.
The end result is a frustrating and extremely boring PVP repetitive loop for high level players.
The point is that he can be beaten and fairly easily. There is even a troop that does triple damage to undead available with a lower mana cost. Silence, True Damage, Mana Drain. So many ways to prevent a single skill that needs to be cast.
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No, if you had actually read the rest of the thread, you would see that’s NOT the point.
It can be beaten and yes, easily. It’s that it’s ANNOYING. Especially when the high level meta is 50% Manticore, 50% Courage, and 95% Bone Dragon.
We’re not complaining because BD can’t be beaten. We’re complaining because Bone Dragon is overpowered enough to be annoying (like Maw and Sheggra before) enough for EVERYONE to run it as part of their defense team.
We simply don’t like having the same matches over and over again, especially when everyone of them is guaranteed to be a skin of the teeth slugfest because you’re nearly guaranteed to lose your first troop on turn 2.
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