[Reported] ELO Guild Wars Leaderboard

Bug Reports
1

So last GW we were ranked 6. Up from 10.

We played rank 3, 4, 5 and 7. That’s perfect matchmaking.

We beat rank 3, 4 and 7 pretty well.

We narrowly lost to rank 5.

1 of those guilds we beat have jumped above us significantly and gained 34 ELO points to our 9, but we beat them?

We’ve dropped 7 places to 13.Yet beat 3,4 and 7.

One of our alliance guilds played random none comparable guilds and have jumped to 5 from 16. They won daily pretty soundly. I can check but I think two days they didn’t even or barely got fought against.

Obviously they have significantly benefitted from easy match making but what about beating high ranked peers?

Seemingly ELO is giving no added weight to who you beat, but how much you beat a random guild by. It’s not giving weight to the rank of your opponent. It’s probably giving the same weight to a rank 99 guild and a rank 3 guild.

How is anyone going to catch the leader therefore, who faces bots. Yeah it’s being fixed soon but the matchmaking is actually disadvantageous if you beat a strong peer and they jump you and significantly. The only way you gain reasonable points is by thrashing a none optimised opponent or lots of them, or so it seems.

I’m guessing because rank 7, they beat a guild by 40k points on another day, where probably only a few players set defences, they benefited.

So that’s one thing, it’s disproportionately adverse to face anyone around you.

The other thing - let’s hold the phone a minute for the other issue at play.

Upon analysing stored game data, it seems the game is telling us we lost to ourselves because of bugged procedural information being collected. .All of our win/loss initial screens were wrong, later appeared correct.

However the game has bugged us as losing to ourselves? We are down in the code as losing to ourselves… So this would suggest that incorrect data from the guild wars is therefore seemingly or potentially affecting the entire matchmaking system.

So the bugs reported by others about fighting themselves are not only definitely effecting rewards, but there is potentially endemic system bugs in the entire process of guild wars, as data may be falsely recorded due to those bugs being far more egregious.

Needs a good look @Jeto

On another note why did we remove brackets.

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2

There was a visual only issue with the End of GW Day results, which is why they were initially incorrect, showing totally different Guilds and results. Had been reported at the time of GW.

As for moving through the leaderboard, depends of the result of obviously your Guild against your 4 opponents, but also then each of those Guilds and THEIR 4 opponents.
Because each Guild has their own attack phase, not just defending.

Winning 3/4 days doesn’t always guarantee moving up in the leaderboard, because there is always the chance that THOSE Guilds went on to defeat other Guilds with higher ELO’s.

In this instance, I did ask a dev to double-check, and they confirmed that yes, it was calculated correctly.
The loss your Guild took was greater than 2 of the wins combined, -12 to your ELO compared to your battles with sat around +6.5-+7.
Whereas the opponent that your Guild lost to, also had a loss on one of their days, but overall their win scores were much higher, two of which were +12.
tldr; no bug has affected your score or your Guild’s current placement.

I understand the concern of a potential bug again with ELO scoring, as we had one instance where some empty Guilds were getting a high +ELO score - but that has since been resolved - I will always keep an eye out for more bugs and check what I can.

But, I can’t always take a dev’s time, every instance someone moves in the GW leaderboard in a way they did not anticipate or don’t possibly agree with. Currently, to check such specific ELO scores and GW scores etc, I do need to borrow a dev.

In 8.8 there will be a new end of day screen for Guilds, which will show exactly your score and your ELO +/- score, so hopefully that helps bring some clarity to movement as well.

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3

Hi @Jeto

I would like some clarification on the first day
You said that:
“There was a visual only issue with the End of GW Day results, which is why they were initially incorrect, showing totally different Guilds and results.”

According to the information ingame we faced $Rockstar$, however the result screen after the reset showed we actaully faced ourselves.
However none of the names of the opposing guild defences matched our guild member names.
Can you please clarify where the issue lies? Was the visual issue the guild we face or the result screen after reset?
If the visual issue was only the result screen why does the API data still show that we faced ourselves? Is this one of the issue that will be addressed in 8.8?

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4

As mentioned, there were two issues..
One was the End of Day summary was showing the incorrect information - a visual issue

The other was some Guilds were paired against themselves - an actual bug
https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/resolved-fighting-ourself-on-day-2-of-guild-wars

But as for this

Where is everyone reading this information?

@xolid99 of the opponents you faced, were 4 different Guilds.

I am now concerned if there is a community made tool being used, that is giving incorrect data and could cause unnecessary concern and incorrect reports.

1 Like
5

Hi @Jeto
Last GW started with (summary) leaderboard scores:
3 Varangian Guard 2918
4 Rock$tar 2764
5 Heartwork 2760
6 Anonymous 2759
7 Na rasslabone 2752

Using the ELO formula released with the update notes,

Screenshot 2025-07-16 222723
Screenshot 2025-07-16 222723508×363 65.1 KB

Anonymous GW was
WIN vs Rock$tar +12.17 ELO
LOSS vs Heartwork -11.96 ELO
WIN vs Na rasslabone +11.75 ELO
WIN vs Varangian Guard +17.13 ELO

These numbers don’t agree with Anon’s total weekly +9 ELO
Or with the numbers you gave above for the 2 low wining scores (which would be defeating a guild around 150 ELO lower)

Is my maths wrong? Has the formula changed? Or is the game somehow using the ELO score for a different opponent? (Like Marshal, which was one of the ‘visual’ differences at end of day

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6

I wrote a whole post, and deleted it.. cos I wanna make sure everything I write is correct cos I’m not a maths guy y’all..

I’ll try to get a proper reply back later today to your comment and this thread :sparkles:
I have a day of leave tomorrow so if I can’t reply today, I will return on Monday

4 Likes
7

@LittleWombat, I ended up getting information directly from Sirrian in the meantime.

Their calculations are correct, so we would seem to have an Elo Scoring bug on our side. I would say it could be one of 3 things:

  • A straight-up bug in the implementation of the formula
    • Could be… it’s a fairly simple formula, but it contains a kinda complex power element, that might have an out-of-place bracket
  • An order-of-processing issue, where it’s applying ELO changes mid-calculation, that are affecting expected outcomes
    • I’m doubtful on this… I would imagine the error would be SMALLER in this case
  • A data-access error, where it’s pulling ELO from the wrong Guild for the calculation
    • Given some of the issues we’ve had with the event ENDING before we could finish processing things like mail, and some of the visual errors in reporting, I think this would be the most likely cause

I am now waiting to find out, which part is the issue and if it can be fixed before the first Guild War battle begins

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8

Can confirm it is the last one, as Sirrian theorised it likely would be - The formula is correct, the issue is where we pulling the current ELO, for the fighting Guilds.

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9

Fix is in the works!

The leaderboard score won’t change, as that is using the correct ELO

What will change is the calculation of ELO on each day

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10

I’ll be happy to show you were we get the data

11

Thanks for taking on board that there could have been an issue, and confirming there was with Sirrian.

This is so helpful to the community to know that actually now, problems aren’t just dismissed and the community manager is working both ways, within obvious reason.

We are happy to supply the evidence as @DelMonkan infers.

Could I dare to ask?

You mention some nice additions for 8.8.

Are there any plans to add individual scoring indicators into guild wars. It’s been a heavily requested feature since release and it will really help motivate players.

The previous version’s biggest success was that. For guildees and leaders, knowing what players did was a real bonus for overall participation. As a GL it’s really imperative.

It’s also a huge thing with player retention I feel too.

4 Likes
12

too many times hearing about U1 having easy opponents in guild wars, this friend chose to join searching for “wars victories.” you have to make this more fair for the guilds trying, soon there will be less players to deal with

IMG_1349
IMG_1349640×1136 82.1 KB

1 Like
13

Hey everyone,

Just jumping in here real quick to provide an update as Jeto is on leave today.

The fix that was in the works has been released :slight_smile:

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