Remove extra turn from Rope Dart

Feature Requests and Game feedback
1

Title says it all. This weapon has way to much for laughable 14 mana and is a bane for PvP and GW. Currently this is by leaps and bounds the strongest weapon in the game. There are way to many mindless, empowered loop teams, and RD almost always is a part of them. At least goblin teams can be frozen, RD teams are always easily pairable with a cleanse options.

Just nerve this weapon, it is overdue. There might be other strong weapons - for certain situations and against certain teams. This weapon is a universally overpowered.

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2

Well said. It is almost as bad as Norbert’s Turnip with gnome team. These take away the Gems game experience and turns them into just watching the opposition steamroller you team.
Please take heed and remedy.
Thank you for this post Rhissa.
pt2. Reading the description on the weapon has no mention of an extra turn. Did you forget to remove the action when changing the description I wonder?

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3

Look at the weapon upgrades.

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4

There are plenty of ways to beat a rope dart team, speaking as someone who averages around 50/50 with it as a defense team in guild wars, and many of those opponent wins are limited by using a specific color on all their troops. Just as there are plenty of ways to beat a Life and Death team (much worse record in Guild Wars defense) and a goblin team (so bad I don’t even use it anymore in defense, changing the hero class alone gets you halfway to the win).

The PvP meta is very rock paper scissors oriented. If you come across an unbeatable team, you just need to switch to a team that can counter it. The fact you have to figure out what beats rock when using a specific color on Guild Wars makes it all the more fun IMO.

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5

Thank you Dust_Angel :slightly_smiling_face:

6

Don’t make one of the best weapons on offense worse for those of us that love to use it beating delves, high-level content, etc… worse just because you can’t seem to beat teams with it set as defense.

Big ol’ :-1: from me for sure.

(But definitely make it more accessible for other players so that everyone can use this weapon, not only those lucky enough to have gotten the chance to purchase it the only two times it’s been available in as many years)

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7

For me it’s not that it’s unbeatable – because it for sure is! – but that it’s so often only used in the Moon Rabbit meta team. Like, c’mon people: have some imagination.

(I’m liking Rope Dart / Beetrix / Angry Mob / Leprechaun at the moment as a good-for-leveling-up-any-class offense team.)

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8

Weapons like RD or LnD should not exist at all.
All weapons are fairly on the same power level especially the tribe weapons, and there are some interesting weapons like Sky Hero, but sometimes an abomination like these two appear. I think it boils down to the same root cause as lycantrhopy has, those who design new content absolutely has no idea how the game works and played.

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9

Upon reading these comments, I am starting to think that the actual weapon is not the problem, but more as to what Maisie said about the teams associated with it and the consequences.
Perhaps what we should be asking for is a limit as to how many ‘extra turns’ can be used (and spawns from being hit and such), so that there is actually a chance of having a 2nd or 3rd turn.
Yes, these teams can be beat, but for a large number of players (at least 8 I’m sure), do not have the resources or time to develop teams to do so.
If there are going to be situations like this allowed to arise, then we may as well go back to Solitaire or Mahjong.

1 Like
10

I can beat the RD teams, almost all the time, but I still think it is an overpowered weapon.

11

There is no rock paper scissors with RD. Norbert’s turnip actually is, you’ll lose if you don’t prevent looping, and it can be usually be countered with freeze. See a goblin team, pick a proper counter, done.

RD is just pure luck, if you have got a bad starting board or bad luck with debuffs/cleansing, the opponent starts looping before you and you’re dead. There is no reliable counter, it is pure RNG if you can prevent the opponent’s loop or not.

Can you beat RD teams? Yes.
Is your win depending on team composition or RNG? Way to much RNG!

What??? Why on earth are you using RD for delves? It doesn’t scale, HKI is yellow, Zuul is blue… Have you actually ever done any delve @ 500 at all?

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12

Jesus quit asking for nerfs. Let’s just have one troop and one weapon, just in case we can’t figure out how to counter something. So much fun.

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13

I have full renown, sans Hell Gate (Pure Faction there isn’t easy potionless), with most of the Pure Faction runs done without potions while earning it. A few that I had completed with potions I pure factioned without them after, for fun.

So — yeah — I know what I’m talking about.

I don’t personally use Rope Dart in delves because I am an endgamer with better (re: faster, or less “thinky”) tools.

But RD does scale (strips ALL armor regardless of how much; i.e more the higher the enemy level is), guarantees an extra turn (and can therefore allow a good player willing to meticulously manage the board devastating loops because it is, as you say, easy to fill at a low mana cost), and entangles to protect from skulls — the main thing to worry about in high-level content.

My “for example” of delves (among a list that literally said “etc…” to clue you in that maybe there were other pertinent uses for the weapon in question :laughing:) is just to point out how that can be a godsend for anyone lacking High King Irongut, Shahbanu Vespera, etc… in situations where Tesla/Rowanne or the actually good, “cheap” options (which is not Zuul — he is liable to backfire on you with his own skulls, and not a troop everyone just has anyway, so citing that as the go-to for blue basically tells me all I need to know, especially when Irongut is also blue :joy:) aren’t otherwise available or viable. It wasn’t to say, “ZoMG nooOoo, NoT da RoPE dArT deLvE mvP” like you want to imply.

The long and short of my position is: anyone who blames RNG for picking winners and losers of Rope Dart battles just isn’t very skilled at managing the board state.

Because I faced Rope Dart 6 times in Bracket 1 against accounts with the craziest high stats you’ll see on Xbox this past War and won every time.

When I used Rope Dart on offense for even more battles than that I also won — I know how to loop the weapon, the AI doesn’t know how to loop me, is what that says — so me saying “don’t nerf this” is me saying “don’t make blue and yellow day Wars less of a cakewalk, please.”

Because in almost every single case nerfs hurt players more than helps them.

Stop asking for them.

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14

That is not an issue exclusive to Rope Dart. I can think of half a dozen teams off the top of my head that will do that and they don’t use rope dart. If that is your issue you may as well completely reinvent how the game works, particularly in PvP.

There are ways to manipulate the board in your favor. That’s how the metagame works. It won’t always work 100% of time, nor should it. There has to be an element of luck.

This, basically.

3 Likes
15

Oh, c’mon … isn’t very skilled managing the board state… The board either allows to deny a Moon rabbit alignment at the end of turn 1 or it doesn’t. Fight over. Big skillz!!!

And this is the core problem of RD: Unless you’re unlucky, all other loop teams can be controlled and slowed down. RD (the team) is an unstoppable, blessed, infinite loop after the very first turn AND if the AI actually somehow manages to lose the turn, RD (the weapon) still makes it impossible to recover from the loop.

I can’t remember any single fight with RD on either offense or defense that was not decided after my first turn or the AI’s first turn. It might have taken more turns to really finish off all the left-overs, but the die is cast after turn one. And if some kind of battle is always decided after turn one, then there definitely is no skill involved anymore!

16

Is it really sad that a game with so many potential builds is watered to down to less than a handful of weapons that are ALWAYS used in PvP. Rope Dart, Norbert’s, L&D, and Doomed Weapons. That’s it. You’ll occasionally see a summoning weapon, but foe the most part you see the same stuff everywhere because they’re just that OP due to certain builds. Beatable? Yes. But it makes for extremely boring gameplay when every team you face is the same variation of 3 or 4 teams, where you hope and pray the board starts in your favor.

17

It doesn’t matter what the starting board is like when you cast Spirit Fox on Moon Rabbit. Now Moon Rabbit has no mana and you removed all the yellow gems that the classic Rope Dart team heavily relies on. And that’s just one of several potential solutions.

There are almost 1000 troops in the game, plus weapons and hero classes. You can find a solution for your problem on every day of Guild Wars. A lot of the top Guilds and alliances have myriad resources and ideas on Discords and other platforms on how to counter all of the most annoying threats and lots more. If a new problem comes up, players figure out a solution.

This takes me back to my initial point. The meta is rock, paper, scissors. If you encounter an team that seems unbeatable, create a team that beats it. The game doesn’t give you a few dozen team slots because it expects you to bulldoze everything with two different team combinations.

2 Likes
18

For the record…

Of the 10 Turn-1 Victories I got this past War, exactly 0 were against the Rope Dart teams I faced. Meaning I passed the turn and did not get looped. (Fun Fact 3: most of my Turn 1 Victories — over half across two Bracket 1 accounts — were acquired on Brown Day, which used to be the hardest day to loop :laughing:)

So is the argument really that 6 times in a row they didn’t have any alignment for Moon Rabbit at all with the starting board? Seems unlikely to me…

Fun Fact 1: one of the Turn 1 Victories this War was against a Thief that triggered Backup 5 times, so it was actually a really long fight :joy:

Fun Fact 2: exactly 1 of the Turn 1 Victories was won when I used Rope Dart on my team

19

“Oh come on “ :roll_eyes:. What you are describing is a possible problem with empowered troops like moon rabbit, not RD.

For the record, I’m ok with the empowered troops also. But I can at least see a beef there. There will always be a meta. Always. Nerfing the meta just results in a new meta. And then an endless cycle of nerfs until we are all left with identical troops, classes and weapons and it really WILL be all rng.

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20

I totally agree with the point that nerfing any given troop/weapon that’s meta is unnecessary. There is a difference between a troop/weapon being extremely powerful, and then downright breaking the game. Rope Dart is strong for sure, but it’s by no means that hard to beat. All nerfing troops does is turn into a spiral of “how come x was nerfed, but y wasn’t touched!” and everyone gets all bent out of shape about the next meta that pops up.

Shifting teams to deal with PvP enemies using metas is a significant portion of this game. If you try to truck every opponent with the same team regardless of makeup, enemy hero class, empowered troops, etc. you’re going to have a very bad time. You fight to the enemy’s weakness and the game gets not only more interesting, but keeps it fresh from using the same few teams on all content. Newer players are going to run into this much more since they have fewer and less-powerful options, but the answer isn’t to blunt the tools that are kicking your ass, it’s getting creative with what you do have access to.

Plus, introducing new troops with new abilities to the rotation can make a really underwhelming weapon/troop a new meta instantly, or can come in and negate some of their OP nature. It happened somewhat recently with Night Spider turning Mother of Darkness and the Rogue team into a top contender under the right circumstances. So who knows if Rope Dart will be this level of powerful 5 months from now with no nerf?

2 Likes