New meta be goblins.
I’d probably be using Manticore but I don’t have enough Arcane Light stones to trait it. It doesn’t need many so I’m just waiting for them to drop. Doubt I’m the only person in that position.
Everyone I’ve seen has been fully-traited so that’s certainly possible.
Okay I didn’t want to start a new discussion since this is about the meta and I wanted to resume discussion about it now that it’s settled down a bit
I am honestly so frustrated by the new meta. I’m just curious how other people feel about it.
I was doing just fine until people started using the double manticore deep borer bone dragon teams.
When people were just using one manticore I didn’t think he was over powered. But that specific combination is brutal and extremely frustrating to me.
And the more I think about it the more I can’t understand how one troop can do so much when he isn’t even a legendary or mythic. My stance on this troop was different before I had to consistently go against this team. I’m becoming part of the problem and using it to hopefully help others experience it and perhaps lead to a solution. Or if it turns out that others aren’t frustrated by it and a fix isn’t needed, then I’ll just soak up the 50% win rate rewards.
I think it’s a bad choice to make an entangle immune (impervious in this case) troop that has a really strong self buff on top of being very cheap, mana draining, and being empowered. All of that together is a nightmare to go against.
After the first cast of his skill a mythic with full bonuses with have 40 attack (I believe). And you can’t entangle that. So, you build a gorgotha team. Obvious counter.
But then manticore has a stun, so if he chooses gorgotha then his trait goes right out the window. Most of the time you can bait him into going after another troop but there are times where it doesn’t work out.
Especially since manticore is empowered (and if two are used … ouch). And then if there are a lot of his colors on the board to where you can’t deny him, the two manticores can very easily get their mana back. And you just can’t keep up with them.
And while your messing around with the manticores, the deep borer can get filled very easily because he’s cheap. And that can fill up bone dragon. And then bone dragon pretty much guarantees that gorgotha is finished and often times your second troop dies, too. And then the whole game is pretty much over from there.
So to combat bone dragon I also include my own empowered mana drain. Particularly spirit fox (untargetable). But it almost rarely makes a difference from my own experience, because they just get their mana back right away.
I don’t know. I’ve tried so many different counters for this team, none of which work out, and I am just very frustrated with it.
If you have any opinions or some new counter I might not have thought about please share it. I will note that this post is mostly a rant. But I hope that solutions can be thought up to bring this troop more in line with others of his rarity.
I don’t think it’s fair for one troop to do so much.
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Completely agree with what you’ve said. I tried this team out on defense for a few days, and changed it. It feels too “slimy” to use. I used to fret going up against that team, but I’ve become more confident as of late. I use a valk and bat team. Neither are ever filled first 2 turns that manticore is going to fire off. So I just wait and don’t fill any troops for 2 turns. After that it’s a piece of cake. Seems too easy, but it’s about outsmarting them.
Since you know that Manticore is going to use his ability for 2 turns, he also doesn’t take any gems for 2 turns. Which usually sets the board up for me to fill Valk and 2 bats, pretty quickly.
Which is why I wouldn’t recommend using troops that are already filled at the start of the battle, unless of course they have better abilities than manticore. Or you are trying to get them to target the one that is filled. Which I’ve found is usually semi random.
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Double manti+DB+driller do not cause me any problems. Soft as ducks. And Im playing with Maw 
I agree it’s an annoying team, with no explicit counter, but I rarely lose to it. As @HKdirewolf says, you just need to bait the Manticores away from your tank, and on occasion you’ll need to eat the BD spam.
Khopeshi might be helpful if you can get a cast off.
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It is not that manticore is doing too much, it is that there are two. The empowered trait is overlooked most of the time for being weak when in fact you can do a lot with it, manticore not exempt. This is the third meta in a row where there has been an empowered troop as a cog in the machine. The first was the maw meta where it had the empowered mercy to cause damage. Most people believed or in my experience it seemed like most people believed that maw was the problem but he needed support from 3 other troops to become a threat and the first support to cast was always mercy. Then we have the khorvash meta which has the empowered troop manticore, and now the double manticore meta. The units are not the problem, it is the empower trait. It is easy to underestimate such a trait but when used properly, you can easily win games without taking mana from the board.
Well I still believe that maw was the problem. Mercy does not do so much. she is hardly comparable to Manticore. By comparison she is exceptionally balanced. The board does not always set up for a perfect cast for her. All she does is convert. That is okay to be empowered in my opinion.
Not something that stuns, drains mana, and is empowered with a small cost (9)!
Since the Maw nerf Mercy has been fine and rarely complained about. I do think Maw was the problem there.
But anyways I haven’t tried an attack team against this meta. It never occurred to me that it’d be effective
What is a specific attack team that you have found success with?
I have never liked skull teams but if it makes this comp easy to go against I’ll definitely use it.
I’ve tried the bat team with no success. Perhaps I am just really unlucky with my boards. Makes sense since I usually use a gorgotha explode team to compensate. I lose against this team almost every time.
I’m okay with longer battles. But when something feels so op and annoying to go against It makes me not want to PVP lol
If it’s not double manticore/borer/bone it’s literally any other team with Emperor special K in it for me. If I get a choice of 3 teams I just cannot stand or don’t want to bother fighting, i’ll just switch them out for 1 gem. I’m okay losing a gem over irritation lol.
^This. I very rarely, if ever lose to this team. It’s actually one of the easier matches for me.
I’ve never heard anyone call Empowered “weak”. It’s fairly well known that it’s an incredibly powerful trait. Oh, and unrelated, prediction for the next meta after MantiBoreDragon is likely going to be Mercy-based.
She makes your squishiest troop tankier, for one. Gives a huge buff to valuable things that are prone to dying quickly. And also, she fuels some of the most powerful troops in the game fairly easily. Particularly Valkyrie, who is still a powerhouse because of what she does to Blue troops.Though a meta based on that would still be healthier imo than double Manticore. Khorv/Valk/Mab/Mercy is still an incredibly strong team that should not be overlooked. I lose to it more often than I do to M/M/DB/BD.
In that meta, yes. It was. Though it’s still hypothetically possible if people start traiting their Assassins and Archers. The problem was equal parts Maw and the skull engine that is IK and Shegg. Mercy just makes that faster without causing mana conflict.
Overall, do I consider Double Manti/DB/BD an issue? Yeah kinda. Is it because the team is too strong? Only if you’re using Bombots, Rowanne, or [Spoiler]. They’re fairly easy to outplay and if people learned to do so, then I’m of the opinion that it would get less play, even if it didn’t get nerfed.
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I find a combination of Queen Ysabelle and Lady Anariel to be an effective counter to the Bone Dragon BS.
I actually put them on a Khorvash-led team and I’ve had Khorvash take a full board of skulls from BD and have 50+ life left afterwards.
Note: I didn’t say Mercy was bad. She certainly is a strong troop. I just meant she had a lot of things that give her balance that is reasonable. And I was especially comparing her to Manticore.
^ what exactly is that ysa anariel team? What do you use exactly?
I don’t understand how people are defeating this team so easily. Could someone help me by listing a specific team that I can try out so it will ease my frustration?
Bait them into draining Valkyrie twice. Lead with Khorv or Gotha.
'Grats, you win.
Right now I’m using:
Khorvash / Valkyrie / Ysabelle / Anariel
Khorvash’ biggest problem is low Life compared to Armor. Anariel takes care of that, as well as generating Blue. Ysabelle buffs his already high attack, turning him into a true dual threat, skulls and spell.
Once it gets to the point where I think Khorvash is going to die, I start using Ysabelle on herself (usually). Everybody is already buffed from Anariel so it’s just tanky-tanky.
I’ve taken full skull boards from BD multiple times and survived. I’ve come back from crazy odds with just Ysabelle and Anariel left. It’s not overwhelming in terms of damage but it’s the most resilient team I’ve ever assembled.
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Thank you! I will try it now. What banner do you think is the best? +2 blue one? I was also thinking lion banner but technically a troop uses green
My team is
S&M redux
sun and moon (sorc) ()
dokkalfar ()
giant spider ^(^^)
avina (***)
() denotes optional traits
You might also want to fully level spider swarm and ancient horror and trait them at full is optional.
This team is very good at taking loses and still having a chance, i love this team as it is a direct improvement to the original daemon pact team i used for so long. # casts of avina gets you max souls, without using magic kingdoms. 2 casts gets you max souls and that is assuming you do not use sun and moon either. Sun and moon is actually stronger than other purple weapons as it can gain 1-2 magic per turn making it very powerful for an aoe weapon. Dokkalfar is used to make tanks to protect and whittle down the opponent. Poison is a friend you can use to good effect. This team is not very strong because it is not that fast. However speed should not be seen as strong me thinks.
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I use Leonis banner. The green minus is irrelevant because of how much blue Valk + Anariel generates. Plus Anariel generates green which overwhelms the -1 anyway.
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Dokkalfar. ROFL
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