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Please close this derailed thread

:gem_skull: Every member of our guild is invited with the understanding that being active and communication are the most important things.

:gem_red: This is more a family then a factory.

:gem_green: We have no requirements because we want everyone to want to contribute what they can.

:gem_blue: Some members of our guild have decided that they can pick and choose what activities they want to be involved in.

:gem_brown: We strive to have every member want to do every event in Gems, with no fear of ridicule or embarrassment of total score.

:gem_yellow: We, as administration, communicate well with every member. Sometimes people just do not want to do select events.

:gem_purple: For this reason, we are looking for some guild members who will participate in every activity.

:gem_doomskull: : We don’t care what level you are.

:gem_skull: We are going to be removing some people that may surprise other members of our guild.

:gem_red: Levels are just an indication of past performance.

:gem_green: Current stats are an indication of current activity.

:gem_blue: If you only want to do 1 event out of all the current events please save us all some wasted time and do not reply.

:gem_brown: If you participate in all activities but are low level that’s fine.

:gem_yellow: Please do not assume that your current level will guarantee you a spot or exclude your from a spot in our guild.

:gem_purple: Level may get you invited but stats keep you here.

:gem_skull: Don’t worry about joining mid Guild Wars, we already have enough points to win this week’s Guild Wars.

:gem_doomskull: : Reply here and we will click your name for an invite code.

:gem_red: : We will then review your stats and see what type of player you are.

:gem_green: You can also add Wyoming Pixel gamertag and we can talk about joining.

@Asuna_Scarlette @CanyonSurfer

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Picture deleted.

Just out of curiosity, what’s the wage for this position? It’s a game for crying out loud :joy::joy::joy:

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I would like to laugh along with you but I don’t get the joke. Can you explain wage?

Yes it is a game, we try and keep it that way. We don’t expect our players to get PERFECT scores. We just expect them to get a score of some kind. Real life happens.

This feels like you’re airing some internal guild dirty laundry in a public forum. Is it a message just to your guildmates? Is it actually a recruitment post? It should be one or the other, but the “hey guildies shape up or ship out” part should be in your private Discord or whatever other means of communication you have.

My personal advice:

Drop “no requirements”, or stop complaining when people don’t meet the requirements you don’t have. People who avidly make sure they play daily don’t tend to shop around for “no requirements” guilds. People get upset when the expectations you set are not the expectations you have. And it’s not attractive to people who do meet requirements to see you publicly establish a reputation for changing requirements ex post facto.

So I agree, you have problems within your guild. But some of those problems are leadership issues, and I think this is an opportunity to grow. Here is a plan of action for healing:

  • Sunday, take a look at your roster. Sort it by something you care about: trophies, gold donations, seals, GW points, whatever.
  • Pick the level on that list that represents the last person you feel is “pulling their weight”. That’s your minimum requirements.
  • Make a Discord server, Facebook group, email list, whatever. This is the place for guild discussion. Do not use guild chat. It is likely half your guild can’t even use it.
  • Start the discussion in that guild server. Post the minimum requirements you plan to adopt. Ask for reasonable discussion.
  • Lots of people are going to leave. If you don’t like that, find out what requirements they can meat and adopt those. Part of being a leader is realizing sometimes you don’t get to eat the whole pie, and sometimes you don’t even get a slice. Maintaining happiness within your group is your job.
  • Once the unhappy people leave, recruit.

Make decisions, post them, and do not renege on those decisions.

Yes, this is work. Being a leader isn’t fun. You get to be the person who takes the blame for the hard decisions no one else wants to take blame for.

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Thanks for ALL your advice @Slypenslyde. This doesn’t feel like airing dirty laundry to me. It feels more like taking the “fluff” out and keeping things real. We do not have specific reqs it is everyone’s responsibility to contribute to the success of the guild therefore doing a fair share isn’t something one can put a number on. We believe in people first, however no-one will sit in our guilds and ride on the backs of others. And to your advice of setting up different venues, the Guilds of Olympia have a vast amount of resources available for every player no matter their current level or capabilities. Thank you for your comments though.

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@BilboBaghead the “salary” or “wage” as you referred to it is the rewards one can receive being part of the Guilds of Olympia. Commradery and being part of a unique group of people to start. The in game rewards of being in a great guild that gets things done without the mess is reward enough for most.

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No offense, but again, you’re talking to nerds here and contradicting yourself.

“We have no requirements” is not compatible with “I expect you to participate in all three: GW, Raids, and Invasions”.

Figure out why you think some of your clan members are deadbeats. “Not doing these things” are your requirements. Be honest with your current and potential members. If you set, very clearly, what you expect “participation” to mean, then in general the people who join will be people who believe they can meet it.

If you say “no requirements” you are saying “you may pick and choose which events you play”. You can’t say “no requirements” then claim people are dead weight. You can choose low requirements and be a “casual guild”. That works and people enjoy it. But “no requirements” tends to mean very, very lax kickout criteria such as “30 days without a login”.

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Maybe, but obviously there’s some kind of number in mind or this post wouldn’t have happened.

(Disclaimer: This has turned into a long-ish post, and my apologies for that, but I think it’s important.)

I belong to a family of 5 guilds (4 active guilds, 1 vacation guild) and all of our active guilds have specific requirements. That said, all 4 active guilds also have had people who only do the minimum, or just barely above the minimum. The nice thing about having requirements in place is that even if folks only do the minimum, they are still doing what is asked and are therefore “pulling their weight”.

Having specific requirements makes the system completely transparent - saying “we want everyone to contribute” is fine, but without having a defined minimum it comes down to personal feelings on whether or not a member is contributing. A given member may think they are and there is nothing in place to tell them otherwise. Saying “do more” is subjective. You might mean you want to see the person contribute another 200k gold, but the member contributes 50k more because in their opinion it’s enough to be considered “more”.

Having requirements can align your guild to be successful in their goals, whatever they are. For example, if your guild wants to earn Legendary Tasks every week it would make sense to set a minimum gold requirement of around 500k. That ensures every member contributes around 1/30 of what is necessary to unlock LTs, even though it will only be your higher performers that actually contribute the millions of additional gold needed to get some LTs. Look at it another way - if someone joins a guild and expects to see LTs, he or she should expect to contribute 1/30 of what is required to get there…otherwise, they’re just expecting to mooch.

At the end of the day, if you “would like to see everyone contribute at least 300k” but you don’t want to list it as a requirement, you lose a lot of your ability to convince people to contribute 300k. Trying to lead a guild through attempting to encourage or even guilt people to do more because you don’t want to put a number in writing is going to sow the seeds of resentment eventually if it hasn’t already.

If you truly want a “no requirements” guild, then you need to put your money where your mouth is and truly be no requirements, which means accepting any and every contribution without the expectation of more, and without threatening to kick people if they don’t hit whatever the arbitrary term “doing enough” means. If you truly feel some people are not contributing enough, you should put requirements in place so everyone knows where the goalpost is.

Looking over the original post, several of the points conflict with each other.

Ok, so no requirements, which means no requirements at all.

But there’s no requirements, so this doesn’t matter.

Wait a second…this looks like a requirement.

If there’s no requirements, it doesn’t matter if someone only does one event…so again, you’re trying to enforce a requirement without listing it as a requirement.

If there are no requirements, this shouldn’t matter.

[edit] I have NO issue with guilds not having requirements, but no requirements means no requirements and should be taken seriously.

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The closest thing I can get to for a res is that it is everyone’s responsibility to contribute to the success of the guild. That means something different to every player in terms of specific numbers. The expectation is documented and well communicated before anyone is invited to join and if the guild suffers a loss because a player decided not to participate in a particular event that player did not contribute to the success of the guild and therefore hurt the guild. Other guilds may tolerate freeloaders and players actually sabotaging the success of the guild. I don’t.

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What about if the guild doesn’t finish part of an event, but all 30 players contributed?

What if the guild doesn’t finish part of an event, but several people only used their free sigils and did not spend any gems on more?

There are shades of gray here too. In both situations, everyone did participate, but the guild still didn’t finish. As long as your goals are defined (i.e. we don’t care how well we do as long as everyone participates) then you’re golden, but if you’re expecting to close Portal 12 during raid boss weeks, that’s going to require people to give more than the minimum, and unless you have a requirement, no one can be admonished for only doing however-many battles they want to do.

Saying “everyone is expected to contribute to the guild’s success” sounds great on paper, but it doesn’t often stand up to real life experience. Giving anything in terms of gold is contributing. Playing ONE sigil during raid boss or invasion is contributing. Earning 10 trophies is contributing.

If someone does 0 gold/0 seals/0 trophies/0 event participation…okay, you can make a case there, but even then “contribute to the guild’s success” and “no requirements” are directly in conflict with each other.

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Every player has specific requirements but yet the guild has no requirements? The expectation is documented and communicated? But… there are no requirements? What?

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Every player has specific requirements? Where is this from?

This gives the impression that every member has a specific requirement just for them…

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Gives the impression…

You mean it gives you the impression.

Well, anyways, I’m out of here. :smiley:

Good luck with your guild. :slight_smile:

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Thanks for the good luck. Good luck to you as well.

You can run your guild how you see fit but what @Slypenslyde & @Arelana are trying to tell you is by not setting any requirements and then dumping people because they aren’t contributing enough you’re going to piss people off and shoot yourselves in the foot.

Its like a bakery putting a tray of cookies on a table with a sign that says “free” on it and then when someone tries to leave telling them because they ate 1 or more of the cookies they now are required to buy something or you’re going to call the police.

So someone who donates 1m gold but doesn’t participate in the events, they’re a freeloader?

CLEARLY you already have in mind what you think acceptable levels of participation are. You really need to form that into an actual set of reqs so people understand what the minimum is required of them.

This certainly isn’t the case if people aren’t meeting your expectations. As everyone before me has stated, NO REQS means just that. Nothing specific required.

I run my guild with the philosophy that I want people to meet & exceed reqs because they want to, not because they have to. We have a 300k gold few and sure we have a few people who do the min. But nearly everyone does 500k - 1m and some even higher. Our seal req is 750 - not enough to hit 40k if everyone only does this min. But we haven’t missed 40k in ages.

If someone only does 300k & 750 seals for the next 6 months, they are in no danger of being tossed out because there is a defined min they are meeting. But if they miss it a prescribed number of times they have nothing to be upset about being dropped.

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All I can say is what works for us may not be anyone else’s ideal situation. Where you see contradiction we see communication. Obviously it is working for us. There will always be players that test boundaries. There will always be a chance that we bring someone in with an understanding but find we were deceived. It happens. We do our best and that’s all we can do.

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What boundaries? If you don’t have any reqs there really aren’t any boundaries for them to test. If everything is working for you then what was the purpose of starting this thread to begin with?

Arguably someone joining a guild with no reqs & then being kicked for not participating enough (not contributing at all is another matter) I’d say they were the ones deceived.

But carry on… :wave:

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