Pity Timer, still in the making?

In GoW you don’t count chickens, chickens count you and then spawn brown gems.

11 Likes

Lol FACT! :wink:

2 Likes

I see… I could get behind a pity timer but only if crafting doesnt solve the issue

2 Likes

I think Crafting is the devs’ answer to the issue.
Players need a way to get those hard to find cards they are missing.
Pity Timer solves it by building a failsafe into the RNG mechanic.
Crafting solves it by actually allowing specific targeting.

Either way, players feel like they have better control over their choices and that is what was wanted at the core. :wink:

4 Likes

Did they actually say crafting grants access to everything? The sneaky hint they dropped implies a separate set of exclusive troops and weapons to me. (Why else would weapons need to be craftable?)

In any case, even if crafting does allow access to all, it and pity timer are not mutually exclusive features.

1 Like

I don’t think the troops would be exclusive, since the initial announcement for it was during a discussion about being able to target specific mythics. There might be some exclusive troops, but even if there were, I feel like we’d be able to craft existing troops as well. Also Weapons might be exclusive, but it could also be something like different results for a couple weapons (see my Weapon Forging proposal for more thoughts on this. Though not saying it’s what they’ve done, I have no idea on that, just it’s one way they might have gone about it). Or they could add some long gone event weapons for crafting as there have been a number of calls for some of them. Eg look at the recent bring back of Crescendo during the Pan’s Vale week with Nyx recently, I’ll be the devs saw an increase in weapon packs bought during that week over normal weeks.

I do agree that it’s not mutually exclusive to a pity timer though.

However the problem I see with a pity timer is that it could increase/start the perception of the game being “pay to win”. Using the values from @Ashasekayi’s example explaining what a pity timer was:

2,000 Gems is roughly $130 without VIP levels. (Motherload is 1500 gems for $99.99) So you would know that if you paid $130 you would be guaranteed that the mythic would drop. For those with particularly bad luck (or having a string of bad luck on a Mythic they really wanted) they will start perceiving that the game is more pay to win now, since if you don’t drop $130 you won’t get the mythic.
Now this would be slightly mitigated by the fact we can and do get a lot of gems just from playing the game (Tributes, guild tasks, PVP wins etc), so a number of people probably do have 2,000 gems lying around if they want to target a specific mythic. However this might create the perception that the lower level players will never be able to catch up to the top if the top can just grab each new mythic with almost 100% consistency due to not needing currency for much else. There is this perception a little bit at the moment, and is one of the reasons behind the call for a crafting system, but currently there is a plateau at the top where RNG slows down the top in their quest for a complete 4x Mythic collection.
Note: I might be overstating the resources available to the top players on a regular basis, it’s possible that once their backlog of resources get used up that they would be in the same boat as everyone else.

A minor side effect to this would be that people would probably stop using gems outside of Mythic exclusive weeks, and just save for the sure thing that they will get a mythic they don’t have then, rather than blowing them in a normal week and risk getting a mythic they already have. While this is minor, I feel the devs would prefer that currency is being used in a mostly constant and consistent fashion.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I’m not against a pity timer per se, I’m just cautious about the unintended side effects that might arise from it.

1 Like

Yeah and all you are saying it’s exactly what happens today. One player can just throw thousand of dollars to drop one Mythic. Will it make this game a P2W?
But someone that put 100$ in the game is not sure to obtain what he want. Do you think it’s fair? I’m sure devs are loosing a lot of money because of that.

The P2W fear is not reasonable: every haters can claim that. I just remind that at the beggining of the game, we had to pay golds to start a battle and so on, this game was claimed as P2W because of that. But every players who spend more than 2 hours know that the amount gold that one win was far superior that the gold fee. So it was an unfair claim done by haters who just don’t want to understand this game.

EDIT: another similar discussion is the Mythic pack: some players claimed that if tomorrow devs provide pack with a Mythic let’s say for 100$, it will make the game a P2W one. But actually we can buy Legendary so what’s is the difference?

1 Like

Mythics are currently a larger problem for the community (Famine, Death etc) None of the legendaries are quite that troublesome other than maybe EK and Bone Dragon.

The issue here is again about perception, most people will balk at spending a thousand dollars on the game just for one mythic, but if the price was only $130 for a mythic? You would see MANY more people actually doing it. Yes is currently possible to “buy” a mythic, but you don’t know how much it will cost, and it could end up costing more than you’re willing the pay. That uncertainty prevents most people from trying it. If it was known how much you’d need then people are more likely to make the decision knowing that they aren’t at risk of paying more.

Surely for top level players but Legendaries should be diffuclt to obtain for low level players who are the less knowledgeable about this game and so on, surely the ones who can call this game a P2W one.

130$ for a troop in a videogame that you can obtain through the game (even if the chance is very low)? If players does that, I will be the first to applaud them. If I don’t give dollars anymore to devs it’s just because I don’t need anything that their shop has (I’m still VIP 9).

I totally agree and it also means that devs are loosing a market because of that (and so dollars). I don’t care if some haters call this game a P2W one if it helps devs to make money.

I just think people may be setting themselves up for potential disappointment, imagining the crafting system to answer all their woes, when we know next to nothing about it. “Wait for crafting” seems to be the standard reply to drop rate concerns now.

Even if existing Mythics were to become craftable, it’d be unlikely for the task to be easier than opening 1000 gem chests (purportedly the average for a random Mythic).

2 Likes

I think you’re describing the switch to Unity, which is being reported to fix pretty much every problem with the game, and might even cure cancer… :wink:

3 Likes

Just might? This is heresy!

2 Likes

Yeah, what others said. Crafting will be the solution here, not pity timers. When? Soon ™

1 Like

hmm maybe we will get “pity points” that we will use for crafting?

A pity timer will solve the problem of opening too many chests without getting a rare drop despite the expected chance. A smartly applied pity timer will not guarantee that a 1/1000 drop will appear in 1000 chests. In Hearthstone for example, the expected drop rate of a legendary card is 1 per 20 packs, with a pity timer put in place so the 40th pack will contain a Legendary if no legendaries have been opened previously. It is mostly put in place to offset the certain probability that a player will be unlucky for too long. If $130 buys you 1000x chances for a 1/1000 event, a similar pity timer will be there just to make sure that $260 (or something similar) will net you 100% chance to get what you should have gotten. This allows the player to have a certainty that he does not need to pay more (or use more resources) than a certain amount, should he be unlucky enough to not have the mathematically expected outcome.

A not-so-fun fact: the chance of getting an event that happens 1/1000 times after 1000 attempts is just 63%.

2 Likes

Which further means (assuming it’s 0.1% chance to get a Mythic from a Gem chest) that in 2000 attempts you still have over 10% chance of not getting it. Statistics can be a b**ch :frowning:.

1 Like

It’s a pity that people playing a probability game (any gacha collector) don’t understand probability. Recall bias will also mean they forget the time they got two legendaries from 50 Glory Keys…

…my point about not understanding probability was clearly not aimed at you!

Life’s a bitch, too. And Mrs Jainus teaches statistics. (both true :slight_smile: )

4 Likes

So a new Mythic appeared and a new set of unlucky players too: A New Mythic - Infernus

Some players spent more than 1000$ without dropping Infernus it’s maybe time to implement a pity timer (even one only for Mythic during the exclusive week)… and no, Crafting is not the same thing…

I’m also worried about the high ressources required to drop a Mythic… I remember well that I dropped the first Mythics with at most 50 VIP keys, generally only 20… So was I super lucky? Or did devs change the drop rate?

If I understand well, the game is going to be released in China where apparently, the drop rate should be visible from all the players. Does GoW concern by that? If yes, when will we have the drop rate?

2 Likes

Nope, I don’t think it is. Ever.

No it isn’t, but it should effectively solve the same problem by giving players at all tiers a route to get what they specifically need.

2 Likes

Nice argument.

It doesn’t solve the same problem at all. The problem here is that players are spending at least 1000$ of ressources without dropping the Mythic…
Of course, opening chests could be a lottery but it’s totally old-fashinoned as other games of the same kind propose already “pity timer”: one cannot ignore the existence of this kind of feature.

But yeah it’s fine. Players will spend all their ressources and rage quit the game forever. This game is apparently sooooo popular that they can ignore this problem.

3 Likes