Pending Kingdom Helper Deal improvement

Is there any chance to get the community involved in this in some way, at a point in time where the biggest blunders can still get averted? To give some examples:

  • “We’ve improved the way daily offers work. In the past, an open task like upgrading a number of weapons triggered random ingot offers, possibly of a rarity you didn’t need. We’ve changed those to always offer bundles instead, in this case a number of ingots of each rarity. And we’ve even slashed the total cost a bit, you pay 10% less compared to buying each ingot in the bundle individually! Happy?”
    Community: :rage:

  • “We’ve simplified daily offers, they now only contain gold, souls and glory. Those are the basic resources that every player needs, so this should be helpful for everybody. Happy?”
    Community: :rage:

  • "We’ve removed daily offers entirely, you are now able to buy a bronze loot chest (250 gems), silver loot chest (500 gems) and gold loot chest (1000 gems) each day. They each contain random items highly useful for any player. Unfortunately we can’t disclose the details, but with a bit of community research you’ll eventually figure out we use treasure maps, gold keys and common ingots as stuffing. Happy?
    Community: :rage:

  • "We’ve finally figured out that our generated offers are only as good as our understanding of game mechanics, so they are bound to fail. We’ve moved to a shop approach instead. There’s a huge selection of items to purchase, including imperial deeds, books, warcoins and cursed gnome bait. You get 3 shop tokens each day, they don’t stack, buy whichever offer you want. Arena runs now award a silver shop token for an extra purchase opportunity, reducing the gem cost of the associated purchase by 10%. There’s a catch, each item has a weekly limit, so you can get at most 3 imperial deeds and 1 cursed gnome bait each week. Happy?
    Community: :heart_eyes:

Even if you only plan to remove some specific offers (e.g. the notorious “Kingdom Helper”), talking early about it and taking feedback into account might drastically improve the acceptance rate, at pretty low cost.

8 Likes

We’re only looking at Kingdom Helper Daily Deals. Specifically the ones I know are on the list because I helped pass them on are:

  • Has a power level task to have x amount of level 20 Troops, Daily Deal gives Troop bundle for an already maxed out troop.

  • Has a power level task to fully upgrade a troop, Daily Deal gives Troop bundle for a maxed out troop - ALSO the Kingdom in question doesn’t have enough released Troops to complete this task.

  • Has a power level task to have X Kingdom Weapons Fully Upgraded, but you only have Doomed Weapons to upgrade. Daily Deal gives Ingot Offer which can’t be used.

  • Has a power level task to have X Kingdom Weapons Fully Upgraded, but the only non-upgrade weapons are ones you don’t own. Daily Deal gives Ingot Offer which can’t be used.

  • Has power level Tasks to level the Kingdom to Level X (that needs Imperial or Books of Deeds). Daily Deal gives Colored Deed or Writ Offer. <— Note for this one: we won’t be offering Books of Deeds in the Kingdom Helper Daily Deals at this stage.

Generally, the feedback the CX team has passed on is that any Kingdom Helper Daily Deal which doesn’t directly assist a player in increasing their power level is problematic. Regarding more specific feedback I’ve given is that when the Kingdom Helper Daily Deal is offered, it doesn’t look at the player’s collection to see what they already own. I’ve asked for the system to be made smarter generally and to look at our collections.

In some cases we can offer more relevant deals, in other cases we may remove deals to remove the frustration of seeing something that doesn’t help, in other cases there will be no change.

For example, you need to upgrade a Doomed Weapon and are offered Ingots → the idea is to offer Forge Scrolls of the correct colour you need instead.

An example of where there MIGHT be no change is when Books of Deeds are needed - we will not be offering those at this stage and coloured deeds can be used to craft Books of Deeds. So they may stay in place.

In cases where there is no helpful deal we can offer due to economy reasons or other reasons, we may look at coding it so you don’t get offered something for that specific Kingdom’s power level task so you don’t have to look at an offer that doesn’t help you, or miss out on being offered something that actually would help you.

If you have specific Kingdom Helper Daily Deals that aren’t on this list that you want to make sure we don’t miss, please let us know and we’ll pass it on asap.

Please note that this won’t necessarily be a one and done improvement, I strongly suspect we will be revisiting this as many times as we need over time. Bearing in mind that a lot of (not all) the frustrating Kingdom Helper Daily Deals are there simply because the Kingdom Helper Daily Deals were released before the Kingdom Level and Kingdom Power Level caps were increased and as a live service game we iterate over time.

I’m also keeping my hand in the pot on this one and I’m pretty sure I’m in the top 20 for play time in GoW on PC/mobile and I’ve been following the discussions about this topic on the forum for a long time, so I’m doing my best to make sure enough details are being given about pain points from a player perspective as I can. I have my derp moments (don’t we all?) but I’m a player too, so I’m hoping to help make this good.

19 Likes

Thanks for this writeup. It would be good to get medal offers for medal-related troop tasks, but removing the troop offer would be fine too.

This may be controversial, but for “level a kingdom past 15 using books” tasks, I would really prefer not to get basic deed offers. At 50 deeds per book, the gem cost of upgrading kingdoms this way is really absurdly astronomical*. As a result, basic deeds are functionally dead offers for players with all kingdoms at level 15.

*way, way, way too expensive for anyone to buy gems with real money to chase these offers

Thank you for such thorough explanation! The rework of daily deals is something I’ve been waiting for! Glad to see this is moving forward.
One question, though.

Not offering deeds actually has a point.
But the problem is that we are given an event key when we are stuck at “upgrade kingdom to level X” Do I undestand correctly, that this offer might be removed?

Truuueee, but what if you’re a player who only needs 1 or 2 deeds to finish off the task?
What offer would you prefer to see?

I’m not going to lie, I actually missed this one, I will make sure it’s added to the list for review.

6 Likes

If we’re lacking weapons, is there any way to offer a missing weapon at the same price it wound be to craft in the soulforge?

That would be extremely helpful and wouldn’t break the economy - if any currency but gems can even be asked for.

1 Like

I know the devs don’t want to offer Books, but they really should look into it.

2 color deeds aren’t really going to help when you need 50 color deeds to make 1 Book, and you need 10 books to go from Kingdom lv 16 → 18. (and there is now 36 kingdoms, a good majority of them are starting to approach the Kingdom level 26-> 27 stop)

I know the team doesn’t want to do anything at this stage, but when is the next time Kingdom Helper Deals are going to be looked at again? I’m surprised the issues on the list need extensive discussions as is.

And then after then after all that, Kingdom Level 18 isn’t even the halfway point to Kingdom Level 20 (x36, and eventually more when more kingdoms come out).

As a reference point, we’re already Book blocked on 2 Kingdoms (soon 3), and 3 Kingdoms are on a point that want those 10 Books.

Blocked:
Ghulvania (Purple)
Maugrim Woods (Green)

Book + 1 troop required:
Darkstone (Purple)
Leonis Empire (Blue)
Zaejin (Green)

Mist of Scales joins the Blocked club on August 8th.

TL;DR: By the time the few problematic daily helpers are fixed a few months from now, Books are going to be a severe problem for late game players before daily helpers get revisited again (if ever)

8 Likes

Its clear that the team have lost control over game code and don’t analyse what they are releasing. How on earth can we justify forging cursebreak weapons with the current scroll situation?
EDIT
I do between 1500 and 2000 trophies a week, mostly explore 12 and have had 1 CG in 3 months. Verse gnomes have also disappeared. Stop nerfing everything unless you are gonna be upfront about it.

That (and the list) is a pretty amazing summary. :astonished:
I hope this doesn’t come across the wrong way, Deep Delves gave me the distinct impression the game is being designed by a Random Number Generator, or possibly a bunch of monkeys throwing darts at an idea board. It’s good to see there’s actually someone trying to show the monkeys where to aim. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Players wouldn’t mind buying those deeds to craft books if they weren’t so ridiculously overpriced for that specific purpose. The deed offer currently contains 2 deeds and costs 300 gems, 50 deeds are needed for crafting, so that’s 7500 gems for a single book. And we are at a point where we need like half a dozen books for a single upgrade. Even 1000 gems for a single book feels backbreaking.

I guess the main issue here is that deeds are also needed for kingdom upgrades from level 10 to 15, in much lower quantity. If you make the deed offer more affordable that part of progression will become too easy. There should probably be a way to buy a significant part of a book that doesn’t impact this much. Maybe a new crafting recipe, a [color] book for something like 1000 writs and 5 [color] deeds? That’s sort of in line with Imperial Deed crafting and would actually fit quite nicely with current offers.

It’s still 7500 gems for a book, even if you split up the total cost into many small payments. Its a dead offer for anyone who can do the math, about as helpful as the Kingdom Helper (unless we get the crafting recipe above, then it would fit well). You could offer an Imperial Deed instead, provided the players doesn’t own enough yet for the upgrade. Otherwise I’d prefer a random offer, it’s the chance for something useful instead of an outright no buy.

Pics or it didn’t happen. :stuck_out_tongue:

3 Likes

What hero level are you? I hope you are not the one botting in the guild :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:.

Yeah, I still would not want to see a deed offer. Add to that the fact that it would clog up my offer slots with deeds every day, probably costing me a hundred offer opportunities per year.

7500 gems per book, 30 books per Kingdom, 35+ kingdoms. No one is going to buy deeds to craft books - it’s absolutely crazy.

7 Likes

Might I propose then an intermediate solution, such as offering [numbers totally made up] Small (5) / Medium (10) / Large (20) Bundles of Deeds as a way to offer fractional books of deeds to players that might be more economically palatable for the game’s economy? Perhaps make the Large offer a VIP exclusive offer?

Those deals would still surely be expensive in Gems, for sure.

Similarly, shop pricing hasn’t also been revaluated since their inception, which was what… 3.3, over 4 years ago? Back then, 500 Gems for a thing was extremely expensive. Several years’ later of passive gem inflation and then adding Gnome-a-Palooza, 500 Gems isn’t that much at all for a late-game player these days. Perhaps it’s time to consider offering higher value, more expensive, gem offerings in GoW, just there are in PQ3?

I’d like to clarify a few things

The errant offer here for extra copies of an already max level troop is actually generated by “Raise (x) troops to (y) Elite Level”. I have seen no instances of this offer being generated for a troop ascended to mythic, and the task in question is “level x troops to 20”… it might still bug out at a certain point, but 99% of the mentions on the forums about this offer are from the elite level task.

I’m sad to see a “may” here, since this is the most essential part, and the part that causes the most frustration with the current system. Every reason why the system will generate errant or useless offers with newer tasks can also be tracked back to the fact that it is overly lax about checking offer conditions.

I have to take this as meaning that even after this revamp you’ll still have a chance at getting completely unhelpful offers. Meaning… if you do get a kingdom power to the point where you are bottlenecked by Book of Deeds, and Book of Deeds can’t be offered, it would be searching the legacy tables for “level kingdom” task. Which includes the oft (rightfully) maligned single event key offer. The one nobody wants to see. The one the loudest complaints are about. Unless this offer is completely removed, at all offer levels, if the way offers generate can ever output a useless offer over no offer, this will continue to crop up. If this offer is completely removed but other “legacy” offers triggered by a similar set of conditions are allowed, you’re pretty much guaranteed to not have solved the core issue.

I’m similarly concerned about not seeing elite level power tasks/ medals offers addressed anywhere on the list. While I personally and many people would rather not receive dedicated kingdom helper medal offers, the lack of one and lack of plan to address the elite levels task offer generation indicates that this task will continue to generate copies of troops offers. But if they aren’t allowed to generate nothing, and thus allow an offer that would be helpful to be shown, the same frustration occurs as now.

3 Likes

But this cute little word leaves so much room to ultimately not having to do anything at all. I’m sure from dev-perspective it is a fantastic word! :wink:

This will not help me on anything. Please offer me some books, writs, or imperial deeds.

Thank you @Kafka

1 Like

I think my request was granted in a different way today. So thank you! My daily offer is writs. There is ID in AD to collect and a bunch of books to forge in exchange of souls. Very nice.

1 Like

I mentioned chapters a while ago.

If you can’t give a book, as you want to hard throttle still, give offers such as a chapter, 10 coloured deeds and a volume, 25 coloured deeds.

You could also do an ID and chapter and price it at xxx gems.

It’s something.

The kingdoms grow but the books of deeds don’t.

Journey gives a cost neutral reward, 2 books of deeds, when 2 books are needed to upgrade the kingdom. In other words it just fulfils the mandatory requirement to progress and you actually do not get any further forward. Status quo.

Players love progress - even a tiny sliver.

3 Likes