One for the PC/mobile guys

I’m in bracket 2, but it is still, by far, the most common team I face. I know I give up a lot of GW bonus points, but I’ve convinced myself that the guaranteed win with reduced points is always better than a coin flip with full bonus. I posted a couple videos of me doing my GW battles last week and I was 50/50 against that team when I went for the colour bonus.

People are welcome to watch over here if they want to see other examples:

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People keep pointing out my initial mistake - I didn’t even notice that until I watched it back :scream:
Serves me right for playing whilst tired but my point still stands…

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I think everyone has jumped on that combination. I’ll confess I do it myself sometimes simply because I know how hard it is to play against. Until I can get better troops or fully trait the good ones I do have I don’t have an option.

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[quote=“Casper1875, post:1, topic:25615, full:true”]
For those of you who’ve been very (very) vocal about the AI cascades on console ‘being in our heads’ have a look - 1:57 to dismantle my fully traited team.[/quote]
I’ve been very vocal that this hasn’t been proven, and nobody has been able/willing to provide an extended video for us to see. This 2 minutes doesn’t change that, not even going to bother watching it.

If it’s the “entire” battles, than maybe post a video of all of them? Until then, as @Delinquent mentioned, these selected videos aren’t sufficient data to draw any conclusions.

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I’ve did a 26 minut video playing on mobile in GW (a total of last 4 battles in GW). In every match it had way more cascades than this video had.
Only thing different in this video from pc/mobile were animations which i loved :smiley:

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I did watch the video and also noticed the bad choices made by the player. The battle as a whole was somewhat unremarkable imo and something i see on pc/mobile as well with the valk/justice/mab combo.

The only thing i noticed that hasnt yet been mentioned is that kraken didnt proc on his cast…

Idk… It just doesnt seem like an illustration of the cheating ai argument to me

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Just wanted to point out how infuriating you’re being here. I’ll have to admit, the one thing that I encounter is when I post an anecdote about RNG people say ‘Post a video to back your story up.’

And so here is a sincere user trying to express dismay at what he felt was unfair AI getting a cascade that wiped him out.

Your reply made it sound like you didn’t even bother watching the video. You just wanted to be a first poster on a thread to try to grief the OP. It diminishes you and whatever capital you have and pushes you into troll land.

Be friendly in your disagreements and even more, stop dissenting just for the sake of dissenting. This was not a contribution to the thread and definitely meant to detract from the OP.

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The only thing that video shows is how the console AI uses abilities efficiently. Everyone on console knows how dangerous Justice/Mab is and once its gets charged up the result is usually bad news. Go slower the first few moves, as they have an exponential effect on the outcome of game.

Oh PS…and that the AI MISSED its 40% devour with Kraken.

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I agree about the use of single videos to try to prove a difference between the two platforms. I also don’t think it would matter how many videos console players posted - the weight of evidence would never be conclusive.

The strongest evidence that there is something going on is the difference in the respective metas between the two platforms. This reflects the collective judgment and experience of both populations of players over every battle ever played. The valk/justice/mab team definitely appears on the PC/mobile version, but it is everywhere on console.

Breaking down why it is more effective, and therefore more popular, is difficult, but I think it has been settled at this point. Specifically:

  • base AI differences (PC/Mobile will always take a skull match to break their own loop while console AI probably won’t and console AI is programmed to be better about choosing secondary colours and when to cast particular spells),
  • AI customization (can further enhance the defender’s advantages over the base AI),
  • Guardians generate mana without over-writing existing blues and secondaries on console, while they can at least over-write secondary colour on PC (I’m not sure if the differences between this aspect of the two versions are totally understood, so I could be partially wrong about this one).

None of this has anything to do with gem-refreshing and skydrops, which may or may not be different on the two platforms.

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Not trying to be a butthead here but as far as response posts from @Delinquent goes this one is pretty tame and he makes a good point as well so in this instance i feel your summation of the post is off base

Whoa… you’re not being a butthead, but I’m gonna call you out for what you think is a ‘good point’?

Seriously? There isn’t a good point in this post:

So he starts by saying that there is a problem with the video. Logically, his “problem” is that he doesn’t want to trust the source so he says it could be an isolated incident. However, this is a post illustrating how the AI works on Console vs PC, and I found it quite informative with no problems other than ones listed by other posts in this thread about how the guy missed a few good moves.

So Delinquent goes on and says that this isn’t worthwhile because he didn’t include 1000 hours of other data? How does this become relevant when the OP is a person trying to make a point about how the console AI works differently than the PC. He wasn’t complaining about cheating, he was showing a difference in AI and did so successfully and then Delinquent comes along and just barfs on it by mistakenly thinking the person was complaining about cheating. He even made himself look stupid by claiming that the guy must have spent 1000 hours to find this single use-case when this wasn’t a “look the ai is cheating” post.

So please tell me how this becomes in any way a relevant post that contributes to the thread other than it has sparked this conversation?

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The original post was talking about “cascades” and things being “all in our heads”. When he brings up cascades, I think it is reasonable to assume he is talking about skydrops, in which case, a single video doesn’t prove anything. That’s why I “liked” @Delinquent’s post, and have clarified and expanded on my position in my posts in this thread. I think the OP has been treated respectfully in this thread and I don’t think going any further down this rabbit trail is going to help anything.

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This is how the OP starts his post and to me reads very much as a cheating ai post. Granted i am using “cheating ai” liberally here so forgive me on that point.

Also @Delinquent doesn’t say he must have gone through 1000 hours of game play nor does he request that much footage so that is a misrepresentation of what he actually said.

What he actually said was “how do we know you didnt go through 1000 hours”. That is very different and a valid question.

The only thing the video does do is show how the console ai makes different choices and plays a bit smarter than pc ai

Conclusive, no. But add weight to the argument being presented, and allow analysis by the community. If I post a 2 minute video with no AI cascades, does that mean they never happen? Personally I think something is happening, just not sure of the severity/reasonablness of it, and have posted that before. My frustration is that I’m legitimating interested in understanding it and having a meaningful discussion with console players about it, but most simply want to vent and call it proof.

All very good points, and all the AI differences between the platforms have caused them to adapt different metas. But your last line is the most relevant, that those differences have absolutely nothing to do with AI cascades, which is what the OP is complaining about.

Now I’ve figured it out I could save & post lots of videos. But I guess it wouldn’t ma a difference as I’d probably get ‘how long did you play in between them’ or ‘they’re not timestamped so how do we know it was the same day/week/month’.
This was the 4th match in GW today & I was already frustrated after the first 3, having been ‘done’ in 2 of them by cascades & winning 1 by a slim margin.
So no, I won’t play angry again - I’ll take some time & calm down so I don’t make stupid decisions.
Tbf, it doesn’t matter how any video gets picked apart - my personal opinion is that the AI has improved massively, not just a small amount. You’re all welcome to your own opinions, I just hope you get the console AI soon so I can see a genuine reaction from you all, as from what I can tell you haven’t experienced it for yourselves day in day out like we have.

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Something is happening I agree. But like I said before I laugh it off if it’s not GW as it’s just not important to me otherwise. What I’ve failed to do today is something I remind people of & that’s remember this is a game, it’s not life or death which is why any other battle is easy.
When you throw the fact that 29 other people are relying on you to do your best that whole scenario changes & the pressure mounts. So when (again - in my opinion**) the AI destroys you with some seemingly unrealistically fortunate drops it hurts.
Are we paranoid? Who can say for sure.
Do we believe rightly or wrongly that there is a major issue that needs sorting? You bet your ass.

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This is the part that does your argument a disservice. It makes you sound unnecessarily hostile towards anyone who disagrees with you

The only other question i have is what is your winnimg percentage? 95% or so? With a winning percentage that high i cant really get behind an argument that ai has “improved massively” because even if it has (and im not saying it hasnt) how easy should a game be?

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I must say you been lucky you got time to play 4-5 turn, most of the time if you got a bad starting board you don’t have the luxury to play that much before looping :slight_smile:

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This video really really does show nothing. An average game on PC has more cascades than this. I do believe AI is smarter on skill casting on console, and that its harder to skull bait it. However i also believe cascades are exactly the same, and this video does support that they are the same.

The hostility is reciprocated tenfold towards console players on the threads I’ve read.
Honestly - I have no idea what my win percentage is as I don’t keep track.
In GW my record is OK. I’ve only managed two 5-0 since it started, both of those on my strongest day of green. I’d say at a guess I’m probably 60% in GW, more on explore but my guildmates don’t gain or lose anything on any other format than GW.