Wait, wait, wait. Reading this through very carefully, this seems to imply the following:
1.) If the INARI LOCATION has spawned a battle that isn’t the INARI BATTLE (50% chance), you won’t ever receive the INARI BATTLE unless you keep fighting in the INARI LOCATION.
2.) There is no way for players to know which one the INARI LOCATION is.
This perfectly explains what has been going on. And, quite frankly, this isn’t just a minor blunder, this is broken to an extent that anything less than refunding all event participation fees would feel borderline illegal.
Sorry, no, that won’t do. The chance to receive an INARI BATTLE is 0% if you don’t happen to hit the secret rules the event announcement says nothing about.
That is actually pretty easy to see why we have a problem - we were taught, ever since WEs appeared in the game, to simply avoid the lowest scoring battles and go for the higher scoring ones. If that one sweet spot where Inari can appear is occupied by a low scoring Spirit Fox, and players avoid that spot, they won’t see an Inari battle ever - 0% probability. It would be nice to know on Monday at weekly reset, not after daily reset on Friday. The screenshot that @AMT posted is a perfect example of a person who avoided that spot BECAUSE we were taught to do just that.
This sort of experiment should be assigned to a beta test environment to see the impact to the players. It should not be tested out in a live environment.
Thank you for the information!
But really, conducting secret, unannounced, unexplained experiments on live server?
About this part…
it might be kind of true IF a player knows all the hidden and convoluted mechanics behind the scenes.
Spoiler alert - heavy fingercounting, rounding and vague assumptions used.
Let’s say that any other weekly event is T2 purchase for 30-strong guild, so - 75 battles.
I am currently at 76 and my score is 1945, one lucky Inari battle I happened to stumble upon with 150 points included - easily below 2130 requirement.
Now, let’s say Inari gives 59 per battle (50x1.18 average multiplier) and drop my score to 1945-91=1844 (average expected Inari points);
then let’s assume that I found 5 more Inari battles (76x0.083=6 Inari battles and I already have one);
then let’s assume that non-Inari battle gives an average of (15+35)/2=25 points, that’s 34 below Inari, so we add 34x5 to my adjusted score to get 1844+170=2014 total points.
It still is rather below 2130 requirement, but let’s be truly generous and say that is down to my vague assumptions…so maybe, just maybe you’re right saying that it "should (on average) require the same number of battles to reach the goals.
However, there’s way too much struggling through backhanded schemes and jumping through layered random which should never be the case. Less random is needed here, not more. Nobody gives a flippety flop about your claims of averaging out in the end if I have to spend 250 or whatever gems more than little Johnny right here and now through no fault of my own - I don’t play worse, I don’t lose battles, I don’t choose low paying ones - simply because your random generator doesn’t like me this week (and there’s no guarantee that it ever will).
While I was not at the keyboard during my working hours, others have already mentioned good points, for example, about how this system forces you to deliberately take low-reward battles just because they occupy the LOCATION, so I won’t be repeating all that stuff.
Well, but in the name of science I took another tier (12 battles together with ravens) performing an experiment now that we know how the event is supposed to be played - INARI LOCATION spawned 3 times - Fenrir, Forest Guardian, Inari.
So the devs deliberately made a spot where Inari could spawn, didn’t mark the battles that spawn there - Inari or not - as special, and if we don’t fight that battle we will never see another Inari?
And you thought that people would not be mad about that?
Did you guys learn nothing from the rigged dungeons system that you “accidentally” put into the game?
If it was just about lowering the chances for the rare battle you could have made the whole map reset at battle 6, only show one fight that’s either Inari, Mythic, or Legendary, then populate the map again with random battles 1 to 5. Just as an example.
Oh my god… A new World Event Change since forever, and they don’t even inform player about it.
It might not be an issue in the game code, but this is big issue in communication. Please avoid changing anything major without an official statement about it ever again, Devs.
How would I supposed to know “tracking Inari” story intro is actually also a game rule, when it was just a flavor text before? If I know, I would be looking anywhere for it, and stop at that one spot once I found it. Now this is just extremely unfair to everyone.
I know something is strange when the map keep panning around, when it was rarely do that before, and now I can see why when the spawn location is a big part of the rule. I was even convinced nothing was changed about spawn order at first, and other players are just confused, when actually everything is suddenly changed starting this week.
Still, there is some misunderstanding I want to talk about…
I don’t understand, what do you mean by “we were taught”? And how widespread is this misinformation? Didn’t Hawx tell you guys before that’s not how it work? Oh no…
Unless they change how scoring work again, which is unlikely (but who know now after this miscommunication disaster) - my point is, how scoring work was NEVER tied to level of the battle. In scaling event, it’s actually about how many TIME you beat that specific type of level.
In case of static point like this, it’s even clearer. For the example in this week, Spirit Fox always give 15 point, and will increase 10 level everytime you beat him. So when you take all other battles, you will have 4 Spirit Fox battles, all at Level 10. Beside taking whatever else that show up, this is how you pick next Spirit Fox battle, bold is what you pick.
No matter the level (10/20/70/120/etc.), Spirit Fox will always award the same point, so why picking harder battles just to get exactly the same?
This is always the most optimized path since World Event is a thing, which I thought everyone know from their own experience, or someone inform them about it, but apparently not…
Still, a lot of player seems to go this way, that’s why first Inari at 40th battle is such a widespread thing, while player who go randomly went around have more Inari battle sometimes.
And unfortunately, player like AMT who leave 3 Level 10 around at all time (which is not the best idea), suffered from 0 Inari. I hope this post make you guys avoid this issue now.
With that said, with this new “Rare Tracking” type of event, another rule is now added, that once you find the spot it can spawn, keep at it whenever you can. If can’t, the circle loop rule still apply.
And which this talk about misunderstand, maybe I should talk about this too…
Yes, this week’s World Event is rigged, because they didn’t inform player about the change, so no one know about it. Might not be a programing bug as the thread name said, but still, a gigantic issue.
Still, I don’t why you guy still talk about Dungeon change after all this time, even right now when it’s the exact opposite problem.
The problem here in World Event is that there is an intended secret rules that make it unfair to ALL players, so the Devs decided to make it more clear from now on, so that avoid more issue like this in the future.
The problem back then in Dungeon was that there is unintended secret rules that make it unfair to MOST players who DIDN’T know the rule, so Devs decided to make it fair to ALL players by removing that rule. So didn’t they did the right thing?
That community data collection we did back then to find the pattern? It’s an exploit to gain unfair advantage, with dedicated website and everything. I even used it sometimes, although I know it was likely just a short-term bug. It was fun while it last, but I’m glad it’s over and now fair to everyone again, even though the perfect run chance is too low from my liking.
So why is it a problem that you can’t exploit the system anymore? Being fair can mean that you lose some advantage sometimes, so everyone is more equal. It’s just how it work.
And personally, in this World Event issue, it might be better if they don’t add more complicated rule like this, considering the scoring order is still not available in the game (though not hard to figure out with experience). But who know, with clear communication, it might be more fun in the long run, so let’s see…
For now, there really should be some compensation for this miscommunication.
People are bringing it up because in both cases the system is rigged against the players that don’t know about the secret rules (that I believe we’re intentionally set the way they were both times - only one was kept secret until players found out, the other at least got communicated now… after 4 days of a 7 day event).
It is primarily tied to the type of battle, especially in non-scaling events like this one. If your Inari location ends up with something like a Spirit Fox, you’ll switch to a different location, which at this point is guaranteed to contain a “better” battle (e.g. at the very least another Spirit Fox, at lower level, because it was there first). And by doing so you will miss out on all the Inari battles that would have happened in between, for the dozen or so fights until the Inari location Spirit Fox is the one with the lowest level again.
So yes, if you prefer, we learned the past years how to play this game effciently, based on the rules provided. And this week the rules got secretly changed, punishing you for playing this game efficiently. Your Spirit Fox at level 10 example entirely misses the point (which you probably figured out yourself by now).
No, the problem here is that whoever set up the world event intended Inari to show up independent of whether the Inari location is already blocked by another battle or not. This would have been similar to how all other events have been run the past years. They messed the configuration up, then pushed it out of the door entirely untested because the weekly reset was drawing dangerously close. And instead of just fessing up and compensating the damage done they are now desperately inventing stories on why this was absolutely all intended, to make the game more interesting for the players.
Everybody who followed the last minute struggle to get the content dump out on Sunday was pretty much sure something would burn, question was just which part of the game would suffer.
Yes, that’s the reason why first Inari mostly show up at battle 40 for most players. It took that long to circle back to the secret best spot.
So yeah, it was punishing to do it the old way, but when your map have 10/10/10/120 Spirit Fox, it was kinda the player’s problem to not optimize correctly. So that’s the point - there is issue with Inari spawning, and for not circling around, staying in the same incorrect spot, leaving all 3 Level 10 behind, you accidentally make it worse. You can’t completely blame the rule change for your lack of Inari battle then, when you can circle and get at least a few of them.
I even accidentally got 3 of Inari in the last 10 battles, because I accidentally land on that spot, and stay on it because non-Spirit Fox battle keep showing up there, so Inari show up in between. If you really somehow still want to have 3 level 10 Spirit Fox around, then you might play 1,000 battles and still didn’t see any Inari. So it’s important for player to understand why leaving Level 10 is an even worse idea now.
Like, like few paragraph below you likely didn’t read?
But now this World Event is unique unlike anything before, because they add a new change. Did you somehow miss this?
So not all rules in old events will apply now, when sometimes a new rule like “rare tracking” can be added in. What used to work before doesn’t mean it will continue to be that way. For now, location-specific spawn is now a thing when it was not before.
Inventing story, seriously? Now that’s a pure speculation. If you can’t trust a statement from a member of development team, where do you supposed to get information from then? Making it up yourself, and spread it as a fact?
Although, I can see why the devs are not the most trustworthy right now, due to multiple miscommunications, mistakes, and missed bugs that should be tested before release.
But have you ever heard of Hanlon’s razor? It’s “never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by lack of ability”. I think that explain most of GoW issue, even including the Weaver Gate too. They’re not good at all sometimes at working to double check things to prevent future problem, which when happened, require even more works to be done.
It’s usually not necessarily to invent a conspiracy theories to explain why bugs happened, like how that will gain a lot of profit, when a better way would be, you know, making a bug-free game to attract long-term players.
But if you insist on speculation instead of talking about concrete facts, I can do it too.
I think maybe you’re right about lack of information and the rush to get it out might be a root cause of this issue, but maybe for different reason.
Maybe they’re meant to put explanation about new rule in that World Event post, but due to its automatic posting, it was out before it was done, then they forget to edit it, or the one who actually design the rule forget to inform the community manager, and it’s only now when they find out there is a big issue going on.
If this was in the official post, we won’t even have this problem in the first place.
There are 6 battles that players can encounter during the event: Spirit Fox, Inari, Fenrir, Forest Guardian, Kerberos, and Wulfgarok. The first 5 battles to appear are randomly chosen, but they all have an equal chance of appearing on the map. The battle against Inari is a rare battle that may show up only in a secret spot on the map, won’t appear anywhere else, and only one of them will appear at a time. It gives extra rewards (see below).
It’s still suck someone have to sacrifice where exactly is that spot to share with other, but at least the rule is clear enough.
Yes, I missed it in the event announcement on Monday. I also missed it on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and part of Friday, where it had many missed opportunities to show up as response to the many questions that were asked. I especially missed it yesterday in the first official bug response to this bug report, which claimed everything is working as intended, without making any mention at all that this World Event is somehow unique. What I didn’t miss is that this supposed “experiment to try something different” spontaneously appeared at the very end of the very last Australian work day of the week, like mana from heaven. A true miracle, we should consider ourselves blessed.
You might want to look up Occam’s Razor. They didn’t somehow forget to mention this “experiment to try something different” on at least half a dozen isolated opportunities throughout they week, they introduced a bug into the event and failed to realize the extent until at least Friday. Which, by the way, isn’t malice, just the lack of ability you mentioned.
Beats me. This statement is so over the top incorrect you can’t seriously expect anybody to trust them.
So you are saying that because you click on a higher level spirit fox than a lower level it is our fault for not “optimizing correctly”? I click the same tab regardless of level once it hits the same troop basically every world event as at that point in all other world events it puts a new enemy in that spot or resets the entire map meaning you never have to change where you are fighting, thats optimized in my eyes and has worked using that method every world event for years so why should I assume it would not now unless they said there was a change. Never lost a fight to the high level spirit fox so why fight a level 10. Are those early battles your idea of fun? 10HP enemies? The fact it was hidden in a certain location which deviated from every world event map set up that I can ever recall with zero information about it is whats wrong here. Had I known it was in a certain spot I would “optimize” my play and hunt for the location but if ur too scared to go after a level 100 spirit fox with a level 10 on the map to have an actual battle not just sneezing and everything be dead I dont even know what to say about that.
That sounds like a correct reading, all right. If (a) Inari’s location spawns but (b) Inari itself does not, and (c) the player never actually fights that battle, then Inari will never spawn because its location is occupied by another team!
The flipside is, AFTER fighting an Inari battle you know that any other battle on the map is NOT Inari’s location, and you should keep spamming that new location over and over again because we can’t tell whether Inari’s location is currently spawned or not, and if it is then any other battle by design cannot spawn Inari.
…Ultimately, I’d say this experimental design is a failure. I wouldn’t go so far as to call it an abject failure, but even with a description of how it works internally, it is still completely opaque to the end user.
It wouldn’t be an issue for me – I’m not a “leaderboards person” and since I generally don’t spend any Gems at an Event Shop, when the cpu level scales ever higher it absolutely becomes worthwhile to rotate through all the teams on the map.
(I’m also on Switch so who knows if this event will be structured the same whenever it hits.)
Hot take: Violating Hanlon’s Razor implies similarly violating Occam’s Razor?
Perhaps that’s why I have such a lower tolerance every time someone claims “it’s rigged”, because it implies intent/malice by definition.
Agree with you 100% here. Im just saying that the method I use has worked for years. Some events level matter some dont. So I just fight battles, to each their own on that. But when the arguement is being made that it is the players fault for not being optimized as being an issue thats what I disagree with as they stated all battles are the same value so unless specifically told we need to rotate them there is no difference in which battle I chose for scoring so without being told we should be actively hunting the inari battle out without reasonable expectation from years of world event scoring that any battle location should have the same chance of Inari appearing
They should do the same thing with this event then.
Anyone that doesn’t read the forums and have no way to be told about this are at a complete disadvantage and at this point I don’t blame people for not reading the forums since this game is in a questionable state.
The devs taught us that by structuring WEs in a similar way over the years. The rule was simple: dear player, you want to save the gems and event tiers? Pick higher scoring battles first. End of rule.
I usually go around, but some people prefer to pick the same spot on the map over and over so that they don’t need to think too long which one to pick - and there’s nothing wrong with that approach. Until this point and this change, there was no difference in whether they stayed at the same spot OR went around. Don’t put this on the players. Introducing secret rules not published anywhere in a clear and precise manner - this is not on the players. This is on the development team & CX.
