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New Faction rewards

My multiplier said 4.1 but when the chest came up it now says 2 in the background. This was a level 10 chest. Its ridiculous and makes absolutely no sense at all that a level 10 chest gives worse rewards compared to say level 7,8,9 . What the heck is going on here seriously. I got a 7 earlier and it was 8x mythic,8x legendary, 75k gold , glorys, & shards. As you can see from the one screenshot the multiplier was dropped from 4.1 to 2 before opening the chest.Is this normal?

The multiplier multiplies your random rewards. Sometimes RNG is just not with you. It randomly spreads the value of the chest into different resources. In your example, you were just unlucky to only draw some ingots. The rest of the chest value is always paid in chaos chards, that’s why you got so many.

The multiplier itself multiplies the random resources, if you manage to get some from RNG, that is.

The multiplier in the back is normal. If you look closely, you see that it resets the map completely, including multiplier, for the next run.

Ok but regular faction does not reset so I wasn’t sure. Also this is a constant issue of chest 10 giving shit rewards . I have never ever ever gotten a 10 in all the factions released that was better than a 7,8 9. Its seems 10 is just a number and means absolutely nothing as far as rewards go. Granted for me I don’t need any rewards but a level 10 chest should be like the jackpot but it’s not. I just went through only the 4 levels and got a 6 chest and it was still better then a 10 lol.

Pretty sure that your bad feeling is magnified by your focus on the “jackpot”. I’ve had plenty of very nice level 10 chests. Also plenty of very nice lower level chests.

The difference between 8-9-10 is actually quite marginal and it all just depends on the random selection of rewards you get. It just feels worse when a 10 goes wrong. Just be glad when you get nice rewards, no matter the level of the chest.

It’s all just perception.

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Level 6 reward

For a New Player 10 is the jackpot. It has nothing to do with with me. In any other game 10 would be the highest reward except in this game where everything is ass backwards.

I tried to explain it to you but unfortunately you don’t seem to get it or just refuse to accept it. Nothing more i can do than wishing you better luck with your future level 10 chests.

Lvl 10 chests yesterday x4 all had 120-168 shards.

I mean really? Just “streakiness” I am sure…

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For reference:

The crossed out part is incorrect, as MarioDeams said, the multiplier applies to room rewards, not chest rewards. That’s why it’s called the “Room Treasure Multiplier”. Only the Hoard Quality multipliers apply to the chest rewards.

Now, back to your chests. Your “crappy” level 10 chest looks crappy because you rolled chaos shards a bunch of times and ingots once or twice. You’re seeing:

Mythic Ingot x8
Chaos Shards x183

but what you actually got, if we break it down and not include the (presumed) hoard level 10 multipliers, is more like:

Mythic Ingot x2
Mythic Ingot x2
Chaos Shards x20
Chaos Shards x18
Chaos Shards x24
Chaos Shards x16
Chaos Shards x18
Chaos Shards x30
Chaos Shards x30
Chaos Shards x29

And your level 6 could be something like:

Legendary Ingot x3
Chaos Shards x24
Glory x54
Gold x2400
Gold x3000
Souls x540

Not real numbers obviously, but an example of what it might be. It looks like more if you break it down like that.

There are hoard quality multipliers for gold, souls, glory and ingots, but not chaos shards - so if you’re playing with quality 10, the chaos shards numbers will always be smaller than other resources, which are multiplied by hoard quality.

Different players will value different resources differently. Chaos shards look like not much to some, but if you’re behind on factions and are still trying to collect many of the troops from chaos portals, chaos shards ARE the jackpot, they’re not as easy to farm as glory, souls, gold and ingots.

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I want a guaranteed mythic troop ( I don’t need) or a epic vault key, or extra sigils for getting a 10. Everything with this game is so complicated as far as development or its a top secret for us to figure out. I am done with this post .Thanks all who responded. It can be closed

I thought about it and sort of get why people say “a level 10 gives me worse than level 9s”. They’re wrong, but like a lot of things in this game,

Let’s say the only three prizes are mythic ingots, legendary ingots, and chaos shards. For simplicity, let’s say you only get 1 of each. Legendary ingots are also probably a “more rare” prize by some degree. We’ll go ahead and assign points to each: a chaos shard is worth 0 points, legendary ingots 10, mythic ingots 100. We called the unit “hedons” in my ethics class but let’s call them “points”.

That means if we’re comparing a level 9 chest to a level 10 chest, the range swings wildly.

A level 9 chest will rarely give you 9 chaos shards worth 0 points. It will rarely give you 9 mythic ingots worth 9,000 points. The “average” is tilted to give you 5 legendary ingots, 4 chaos shards, and 1 mythic ingot worth 1,050 points.

A level 10 chest swings between 0 points for 10 shards and 10,000 points for 10 shards at the rarest extremes. Its average is 5 legendary ingots, 5 chaos shards, and 1 mythic ingot for… 10,050 points. But there is a teeny tiny change in where the median sits, so the average of the 50% “bad” rolls is worse than the average of the “bad” rolls for the Level 9 chest.

Of course, if we think logically we understand “a worse 50% loss” is balanced by “a better 50% win”, but think about the sample size of Delving most days of the week: we don’t get to play 20-30 battles and see the average of that. We get to play 3.

Losing a coin toss 3 times in a row is not uncommon. So it feels worse when you get the “lower 25%” out of a level 10 chest. That lower 25% is slightly wider since there are more pulls. So you are more likely to have bad luck with a level 10 chest. This is balanced by “you are more likely to have good luck”, but when you get to make 3 pulls a day you don’t see that so readily.

I’m not sure how a “base value” calculation like this can work, though, because of diminishing returns — ingots, in any amount at this point, are worthless to me even though they were once quite valuable. So the absolute value calculator is seriously flawed from that perspective — no knowledgeable player is clamoring to buy more growth orbs even though they have a very high “gem value” score ascribed to them.

So like, if “gold” is the “low-value” reward likely to drop from a Level 5 chest and less likely to drop from a Level 10 (where, say, Mythic Ingots are likely) because the game economy’s Rules of Acquisition state “gold is less valuable than ingots,” then for me a Level 5 chest is objectively better — indeed, more valuable — because I can use gold, and I have no used for mythic ingots (unless a massive amount of new uses/weapons of the appropriate rarity are added to the game, but we don’t often value things on the unpredictable future alone, often prioritizing the known of the present).

And that pretty much stinks.

Because if — for easy math, we say:
10k gold Gold : 1 (or Hell, 100 — doesn’t matter) Mythic Ingot(s) ; Level 5 Chest = 4:1 ; Level 10 Chest = 1:4

I have an 80% chance to get the gold I want each roll of the “bad” chest, and only a 20% in the “good” one. It’s hard to correct for that in such a way that levels out my desired outcome — additional rolls aren’t going to fix the problem of related rates, only better treasure multipliers might.

But if my 5 rolls of a Level 5 get me, on average, 40k gold and a single mythic ingot due to a multiplier of 1, then I would need the Level 10 chest’s multiplier to be at least 4 times higher. And if it was 4, not higher, I’d still have the same “value” despite the game’s disagreeing: 40k gold and 16 (worthless) mythic ingots.

Bottom line for me, unless I’m misunderstanding the argument — Level 10 multipliers are not 4 times higher than Level 5’s, so if Level 5s are more likely to roll the resources I care about then they are actually better to have than Level 10s.

Problem could easily be solved by allowing players to choose what they want rolled in their drop tables, instead of adjust them toward the “better” resources as a natural consequence of having more Hoard Quality. I’d only have gold and chaos shards checked at this point — maybe ingots in a single spot just to be safe :man_shrugging:

I don’t completely understand the above two posts, maybe because I’m too tired to focus now (it’s after 2am here).

Anyhow, i couldn’t help myself to add one more thing to my explanation: the chances of getting a 10 are quite low, while getting a 7-8-9 (or even everything below actually) is much more probable. This results in a much higher hit rate of lower ones and creates the effect of seeing “amazing” (=varied) rewards often. The few times it happens to open a level 10 chest gives RNGesus much fewer opportunities to roll “amazing” (=varied) rewards and on top of it, this is magnified because of its “jackpot” expectations.

Very practical example: you throw a dice and the chards you get are dice value*10. Every time, no matter which value you roll, the chards are split up in different prizes by RNG rolls. You throw 1-5: you’ll have 10 - 50 chards randomly divided, sometimes you’ll end up with varied prizes, sometimes with only chards too. You don’t really care and even ignore the chard only chests because next dice roll has another opportunity to do better and in the end you’re just focused on throwing a 6, which only happens 1 in 6. And then it finally happens! Unfortunately, the dividing of the prizes only resulted in two things, ingots and shards. Now you’ll have to wait quite some time again before throwing 6 again. On average, after 60 throws RNGesus will have had the opportunity only 10 times to roll nicely spreaded different rewards for a 6, while the other values had 50 times the chance and will appear to be more varied because of this.

Long story short, i really believe it’s all about perception and i hope you understand what i mean. Good night guys!