Life and Death....🤦

My main issue with the weapon is that I failed to get it the first two times it was available. (The weekend event and then the Tuesday event).

I just put a reminder in our Guild chat that Silver Necropolis is due soon for those that don’t have it. Be advised: Raiders incoming. For the Horde.

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What he said!!!

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@Thevc @rojo Come on. Please ignore the need to engage in this rivalry in unrelated threads in the public forum out of respect for the thread at hand. It buries the discussion, and I don’t want another thread closed because of this.

If someone attacks your honour, please don’t feel the need to respond. I don’t form solid opinions or judgements based on hearsay, and I don’t think too many people you want in your life do either.


Question: Is L&D overpowered?

Given that it is a legendary weapon and not a mythic AND that is is better than most mythic weapons; AND (arguably) better than 2/3 of the doomed weapons - yes it is overpowered.

However, in this game, it is not abnormal that a legendary troop is far superior to a mythic one. This has always been one of the odd features on this game.

This is not really debatable, is it? Let’s be honest.

However, the various L&D meta teams have been out there for a long time, now AND it is becoming nearly ineffective, on defense, in GW tells you that for all color days, there is at LEAST one reliable counter that is being used by B1 guilds - possibly other brackets.

This is not really debatable, either, is it? I’m sure some intrepid guild member will post up (or has) a team showing 0/30 for this particular defense.

So while, personally, I believe that L&D does need a nerf (it simply does too much, esp. when combined with a certain class), it is not a game breaking weapon by any means. Removing “bless” is the only fix I believe is needed for this weapon.


Mods before you decide to lock yet another thread due to the minority who are compelled not to follow the guidelines.
Please consider to never lock a thread without issuing a ban or a ban warning.
If it’s not worth banning over, then it’s not worth locking over. Just my thoughts. :man_shrugging:


It’d be cool if instead of locking threads for going off topic we’d kick the people who tend to result in the most “thread closed due to personal insults” off the forum.

It seems to me if I wanted a thread closed, the most effective way would be to DM @UKResistance or someone and agree to have a pretend fight for a few days in it. Neither one of us would be punished for it, but the thread would sure die.

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I think removing blessing from L&D will be the same as removing extra turn from a rope dart or the same blessing from a trickster shot. L&D is not overpowered and can easily be beaten, to my experience, in 95% of battles, there’s always a chance that Gems will fall not for your troops sake.

Okay, fine, a warning. I’m going to start handing out suspensions if I see any more ad hominem in this thread or otherwise.


L&D is fine. I kill 95% of L&D orbweaver teams with my counter-L&D team. The 5% loss is due to bad starting boards.
You just need to find someone with L&D from the top of pvp leaderboard and try your own teams against it until you make a successful team. Then don’t share that team anywhere and don’t use it as a defense team because L&D non-copy-pasta users will try to improve it to counter your now publicly known team. Then copy-pasters will copy paste it.

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I don’t know what’s changed but I feel even a month ago I had a lot more trouble with L&D than I do now? I haven’t really changed my team. I feel like Rope Dart’s been giving me more consistent trouble. I’m not really sure what changed. Either way I’ve always felt both of those weapons were above the “acceptable level of power” bar but I’ve been around that argument so many times.

If anything I think a big part of the problem is the sameyness of PvP. If you do have a problem with L&D and you don’t have the mythical “great team” against it, then it’s a pain in the butt to skip over it every 2-3 matches.

It’s not fine it needs nerfed. How do I know? Because over half of the defense teams out there use it. In the past popularity was equal to “too powerful”. When everyone used The Dragon Soul, it got nerfed. When everyone used wisps, it got nerfed. When everyone used Ubastet, it got nerfed. Time to cut the thing off by its head.

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I attribute that to people are lazy. Why make a new defense when people just complain about a current one? There’s no point in actively trying to win on defense either, meaning there’s no reason to change defenses.


All the more reason to nerf the thing. There’s hundreds of weapons out there. Be creative!

Power isn’t distributed evenly among weapons. There might be hundreds of them, but there are probably less than 2 dozen weapons with anything approaching a power level.

If you want L&D nerfed, here’s how you go about it: write a small essay laying out how its features give it a power level above and beyond other meta weapons. Maybe come up with a good subjective but repeatable way to measure weapon power. Lay out the natural counters to L&D and explain why you think they aren’t as effective as the counters to other weapons. Finally, propose what an adjusted L&D would look like, with discussion as to why that would keep it in place among meta weapons without making it so downplayed it’s useless.

Then brace yourself, because the only response you’re going to get out of these forums is that you’re a dumb n00b who doesn’t know anything about teambuilding. Further, they’ll posit you want the game to be “too easy” therefore you want all good weapons nerfed.

But right now you’re not talking about L&D. You’re talking about the lack of variety in PvP, which is a different problem that’s been around even longer than L&D.


Except that our guild tracks wins by defense teams. L&D Orbweaver teams are consistently good. They may fare better on some days than others, but they are always effective. That’s why you see them so much in GW.

What bracket are you in?

a lot of the L&D I see in Bracket 1 actually doesn’t win all that much.

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Awwww we missed the release anniversary for life and death.
I guess I was too busy Recruiting for the 20% of players who quit partly if not totally due to the balance change this weapon caused/causes.
The devs used to nerf things when they saw it winning too much on defenses. Now they worship the same broken mechanics.
I try to have it on my Ranked PvP defense as much as possible just to see it continually rack up wins. I get a chuckle (like a a dark comedy joke) and some free gems. Then I reflect on how the first 2 years of my GoW experience. Almost every patch had important balance changes that improved the game.

The last important balance change was literally 13 months ago. And the game has only gotten worse since then. Now instead we get minor changes to garbage ass troops that no one used and continue not to use. Just so that the person in charge of it “looks like they are doing something” when they are really changing absolutely nothing balance wise, or enjoyment wise.


19 months later.
Still blessed.
But nerfed.

Bandit got a huge buff though so easily cancels this nerf out.

Bandit was nerfed as well. So you must mean the trait refund. Because of course you do. The trait refund is temporary. So fast forward to the new generation that will trait Bandit before they know any better and we’re back to Life and Death being Nerfed.

Fleg, you trying to argue that another troops balance changes offset a weapons nerf is the most Fleggy argument you’ve ever Flegged. Merry Christmas man. Keep flegging on with your Fleg self.