Lets talk about delve rewards and maybe figure out something better

[Thrafgig]

TL:DR: I hear a lot of complaints from my guild and other players that delve rewards are too random and just not worth the time and effort. Something needs fixing.

Okay, so we have delves and they are a cool idea. The one team, go as far as possible idea is great but there is a bit of a design philosophy issue I see here. For Raids and Invasion you can not “win” in that you never finish. You go as far as you can until you are out of seals or get your head handed to you in a bag. No problem, that is how they work, the rewards are solid for the amount of time and effort. If your team dies, no problem, you get another, and maybe get some pooled points (boss damage or towers demolished). All good.

Delves seem to be following a similar design in regards to:

1: They are limited like Raid and Invasion based on the seals you have.
2: The difficulty ramps up fast if you complete the highest level one you can do.
3: The turn into “go as far as you can before getting you head handed to you”.

The problem here is the point of the delve is to “win” or finish the boss mythic room. With the limitation on the number you can do plus the difficulty ramp + the diminishing rewards for doing lower level delves + random treasure pull at the end, this all = frustration for the players. Getting trounced by a level 140 Zuul is fine, is good, you can still contribute and get goodies for it. Getting slapped around like a red headed step child in delves is an exercise in frustration that turns into an exercise in “why bother?”.

So, what to do about this. I think the rewards structure and the diminishing returns needs to be revisited. So, some possible recommendations:

1: Delve fights give a little faction based on the room level. Not much at all, maybe 1-2 faction points per level of room. At least you will get the feeling of progress, even if it is grindy.
2: Random diminishing returns vs. non-random rewards structured to level. Okay this is something that is really at the core of what I am saying. If the rewards were non random, or less random and structured to level instead of a random pull that gets a nasty ding if you do a “lower” level again, it would give the player the feeling of progress, albeit slow. How could this be done? Well, say for a level 50 delve you are going to get the FP from clearing the rooms and X chaos shards based on the level of the delve, for instance, level*0.5. Then the level of the delve chest would directly pertain to the random treasure bonus you get for finishing the delve, higher possibility for rare/ultra rare/legendary/mythic treasures, bonus FP and bonus chaos shards.

[Slypenslyde]

Here’s my opinions on Delve rewards:

• I do not like that a Delve run does not guarantee Chaos Shards.
• That doesn’t matter as much in a faction event, because I expect over 5-10 Delves I’ll get “a lot of” Chaos Shards.
• I’m not too upset mythic ingots aren’t always in a high-quality chest.

So as not to write a page-long essay it comes down to this: I need Chaos Shards to progress in Delve, and Delve is the only place that drops them. I’d rather get 1 than 0.

Mythic/Legendary ingots used to be like this. I had no way to get them other than the weekly income. Everything else was RNG. Now, because of Delve, I get “some” mythic ingots over time. So since it was impossible to get them before, and now it is “possible but RNG”, I am a lot happier.

Other than that, amounts seem OK. When I can play a lot of delves I feel like I get a lot. But when I can only play 3 per day, the concept “I might get 0 chaos shards today” doesn’t sit well.

[UKresistance]

tldr;
You get better loot at a high quality level. But you should get shards every time.

[Ashasekayi]

I’d vote for getting some amount of shards in every chest.

[awryan]

Treasure gnomes and the vault beat me down enough that chaos portals are just now apart of the norm. It’s just another slot machine that players partake in hoping for the jack pot.

[Arm_A_Geddon]

Some of the features of the game need to be decommissioned such as raid/invasions which in most of our opinions are a complete waste of time. Delves are a nice idea but implementation need tweaking as per above. These modes are becoming an increasingly negative time sink and players are starting to quit because of it. Hopefully the devs will realize this, cancel obnoxious game modes and enhance the modes worth the players time.

[Zeddicus2017]

@Thrafgig

2: Random diminishing returns vs. non-random rewards structured to level. Okay this is something that is really at the core of what I am saying. If the rewards were non random, or less random and structured to level instead of a random pull that gets a nasty ding if you do a “lower” level again, it would give the player the feeling of progress, albeit slow. How could this be done? Well, say for a level 50 delve you are going to get the FP from clearing the rooms and X chaos shards based on the level of the delve, for instance, level*0.5. Then the level of the delve chest would directly pertain to the random treasure bonus you get for finishing the delve, higher possibility for rare/ultra rare/legendary/mythic treasures, bonus FP and bonus chaos shards.

I don’t like the idea of punishing people for not having the time, or troops, to do hard delves by gimping their rewards. Nor do I like the idea of forced progression, but that’s just me…

[awryan]

Case made for the OP
Level 170 HoG Delve

Level 6 chest
I haven’t needed souls in a year. (4 million Currently)

Level 7 chest, 180 delve

[Zeddicus2017]

@Arm_A_Geddon

Some of the features of the game need to be decommissioned such as raid/invasions which in most of our opinions are a complete waste of time. Delves are a nice idea but implementation need tweaking as per above. These modes are becoming an increasingly negative time sink and players are starting to quit because of it. Hopefully the devs will realize this, cancel obnoxious game modes and enhance the modes worth the players time.

Which modes are you talking about? Modes like guild wars, pvp, arena, treasure maps, and explore? If people have time to grind pvp and arena for hours on end, they can do the events…

I’m not sure why people with limited play-time would feel this game, or any game, needs to be designed around their schedule, or their preferred play-style.

[Zepp]

@Zeddicus2017

I’m not sure why people with limited play-time would feel this game, or any game, needs to be designed around their schedule, or their preferred play-style.

Totally agree. Removing content never makes sense. Let everyone play the way they want to. Lots of people never open Treasure Hunt. I do.

[Arm_A_Geddon]

Because end game players especially feel obligated to do all the modes for the good of their guild. Some of the game modes such as invasion/raid are simply nonsense and mostly hated across the player base. They are simply a waste of time and offer horrible risk/reward ratios. Keep pvp/ guild wars/Delve (but rework rewards). Sunset raids and invasions.

[Arm_A_Geddon]

and I am also one of those people never opening Treasure Hunt…such a waste…lol.

[Razzagor]

@Arm_A_Geddon

Sunset raids…

I’m only 20% sorry about this off-topic.

[Zeddicus2017]

@Arm_A_Geddon

Because end game players especially feel obligated to do all the modes for the good of their guild. Some of the game modes such as invasion/raid are simply nonsense and mostly hated across the player base. They are simply a waste of time and offer horrible risk/reward ratios. Keep pvp/ guild wars/Delve (but rework rewards). Sunset raids and invasions.

I happen to like raids and invasions and dislike guild wars. If they made me do guild wars every week, I’d be gone. I almost quit back in January, before I heard about raid and invasions. Not everyone loves guild wars, or thinks it’s the best thing since slice bread.

[Arm_A_Geddon]

Guild wars is a love/hate relationship. I hate it more than I love it but like the game mode overall. As a member of the #1 guild, most of the guild gives us their worst defense teams. We get Uba’ed every f’in day sometimes.

[Zeddicus2017]

@Arm_A_Geddon

Guild wars is a love/hate relationship. I hate it more than I love it but like the game mode overall. As a member of the #1 guild, most of the guild gives us their worst defense teams. We get Uba’ed every f’in day sometimes.

I understand, being in A.W. Ryan we also feel other guilds have it out for us during guild wars week, but that is the nature of a competitive game mode like guild wars – where we are all forced to fight meta teams with boosted stats…

I hate being forced to watch goblins loop endlessly, etc. and having no option to retreat… It’s no fun, and one of the reasons I find guild wars frustrating.

But I do it, every third week, because I love my guild.

[Arm_A_Geddon]

Agreed, feel the same. The collusion is rampant in guild wars although no one will admit it. Makes it tough to deal with sometimes.

[Thrafgig]

@Arm_A_Geddon

Some of the features of the game need to be decommissioned such as raid/invasions which in most of our opinions are a complete waste of time. Delves are a nice idea but implementation need tweaking as per above. These modes are becoming an increasingly negative time sink and players are starting to quit because of it. Hopefully the devs will realize this, cancel obnoxious game modes and enhance the modes worth the players time.

Yeah this has nothing to do with my OP. Please post it somewhere else and don’t derail my thread.

[Shimrra]

Pretty sure one of my first level 7s or 8s gave me 4.6k souls. I was displeased.

Those common rewards have absolutely got to go. They don’t belong here any more than they do in Legendary Tasks. This isn’t some run-of-the-mill thing like Invasions and Raids where we’ve got a ton of easy-peasy things we can one-hit - these enemies get absolutely enormous, they’re durable, the fights take a long-ass time and some of these rooms were obviously designed to troll us from the beginning.

[HONUSDAN]

It took me until level 80 to realize advancing didn’t guarantee me better prizes. I’ve stayed at level 80 and will stay there until the prize pool changes. It’s low enough the I can get through all three turns in about an hour.