Keep the balance!

Unfortunately, there is no such thing as balance in the game at the moment!
The game is dominated by the Wand of Stars weapon, the Elementalist class and Stellarix/Takshaka.
I think that the game suffers greatly from such an extreme dominance of a few elements.

Not only is it extremely boring when you watch PvP battles and almost always encounter at least one of these elements. It is also extremely frustrating for the medium-strong players and also for the beginners because they always only see these teams among their teammates and opponents that they cannot compete with.

We currently have 1420 units, but everything is dominated by two units + zuul/ctharrasque. We also have 567 weapons, but a single weapon dominates. We have 38 classes and everyone only plays with one class.

I think the game is going in the wrong direction here. There have always been some very strong units and popular weapons and also a few classes that were preferred But it would be nice if the other units and weapons were used more again.
At the moment you have absolutely no chance and no fun when playing against these over-dominant units/weapons/classes.

Of course I’m not in favor of Stellarix being turned into a tame lizard and the Wand of Stars shouldn’t be reduced to a wooden spoon either, but here there needs to be a much better balance in the game, otherwise I am very pessimistic for the future of this game!

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This is absolutely not true. See the topic on Stellarix for lots of examples of teams that can take down Wand / Stellarix. (Sorry I don’t know how to link the topic).

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Here we go again!

No, those 3 elements are perfect.
And l have lots of good time with the Holy Trinity!!!

There must be massive buffs for other troops, classes, weapons!!!

Gz you have fun while people who wanna play other stuff, are stomped af and lose desire to play, we are so happy you have fun with obscene trash balance. Btw, nothing would be problematic if we had first take on defense teams in new pvp, now its complete trash and if not for a great guild im in, I’d gtfo from this sad game same week that stupid patch dropped.

I just said that the balance is just not right at the moment! And it’s not just about me, but about many other players who I hear complaining about in other guilds and now in my own guild and who then sometimes stop playing altogether!

If there are other ways to improve the balance, that’s just as fine with me!

For me it’s not just about the topic of how to defeat Stellarix and Magic Wand.

I’m not speaking from a personal point of view where I’m just complaining! I’m speaking from the perspective of a guild leader who sees players give up and quit the game in frustration every day!

I’ve beaten Stellarix/Magic Wand often enough! My point is that I don’t believe that the point of the game originally was to have to fight against the same teams over and over again and at the moment you almost exclusively face these teams!

There is currently no balance in the game!

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So much to unpack here is this wild exaggeration.

We will start here. FALSE! I have a low level second account. She has yet to lose a single pvp battle, even blood frenzy. She does not face any teams with wand, dragons, or even elementalist. Why? She is low level and faces other low level people. None of us has much of anything. An interesting side note is that battles are not fast and are not any more interesting than the battles on my main account.

Also FALSE. I’m not using elementalist, wand, tak, stella, zuul or cthar for the world event. I’m not using them for underspire. I’m not using them for the holiday event. I’m not using them in my gold grinding explore 12 team. I don’t even HAVE Stella, so it’s hardly a requirement.

One mode. One PART (blood frenzy) of one mode. This is assuming the frenzy is not in a kingdom locked area.

Again. One PART of ONE mode, sometimes involves fighting a stella/tak/wand team. The teams are highly beatable, but that is neither here nor there. It’s a bit boring to see the same teams, for sure. But it’s not a balance issue. Where was all the complaining about all of this before blood frenzy pvp was introduced? It was nowhere, because it is not a problem!

The problem is the design of pvp. Namely blood frenzy. You could remove wand, elementalist, all dragons and all bosses and you are still going to face the same teams over and over because there is STILL going to be a best (meta) attack team. The only difference would end up being the speed of the battles, maybe.

As a note of helpfulness, use troops that can silence and troops that can web to counter the dragons. Silence also helps with wand. But I’m starting to think that people don’t actually want what they are asking for… ways and reasons to make creative pvp teams.

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Ummmm pvp is not the game. It’s just one part. And if you think nerfing certain troops or weapons will result in not having to face the same teams over and over, that is kind of magical thinking. There will always be a meta team that people will use to power through boring grinds like pvp. It will be a different meta team but there will be one, and you will see it over and over and over.

pvp is unbalanced by definition in the blood frenzy zones. It’s basically the POINT of those zones. The battles are so out of balance from player to computer player that people bring sledge hammer meta teams in. Unfortunately, when the frenzy moves on, the players don’t go change the team in the old zone because they likely aren’t playing there anymore.

Blood frenzy is the problem and the way enemy teams are set is the problem. The normal balance of weapons/ class/ troops is not the problem. If it were, there would have been at least a year of chicken-little, pearl-clutching over it. There hasn’t been.

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@Tresk
Very well argued, but please explain this to the people who leave the game day after day and don’t come back!

Yes, with a lower level you can’t play against Stellarix/Wand. But how long does that last? We both know that it goes up to level 800+ pretty quickly and then these people all face this problem!

Even if you argue very convincingly, your arguments unfortunately miss reality!

And it’s not just about more and more players turning their backs on the game, I’m also concerned about an approach to the overall balance of the game.

The question remains: Why are there so many units if only a small fraction of the units/weapons/classes are used anyway?

@Lanfeust

As a guild leader, I get a lot of feedback in regards to why people leave the game. I’ve even left once, briefly. The biggest exodus we have had recently was after the journey troop nerf. I still have at least one person with a foot out the door over that.

My guild has four people under level 1000, twenty-three people between 1000-1500 (average about 1100) and three people over 1500. So, basically the majority of my guild should be struggling, and looking to quit, according to you. Yet the only angst I’m getting is that there is too much to do and not enough time. So SURE. Nerf MORE ways to get things done quickly. That will help retain people.

The answer remains that if all you are using is a small fraction, that is a you problem.

Mmmmmmmmmm… no. The reality is that PvP is not the entire game. It’s not even a significant chunk of the game. I do not want to see my guild decimated again over more short-sighted nerfs that won’t even solve the stated problem.

Don’t forget the journey troop nerf was clamored for, for the EXACT same reasons, and we are right back in the same place, where people have found a meta and are using it.

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Then let us agree that we disagree! :wink:
The things I read and hear in my and other guilds contradict what you say here, sorry!

Players will always find the next meta. The challenge and fun (and yes, frustration) of this game is experimenting to find the counter to the meta. Or if your teams aren’t yet strong enough, working on leveling up your troops and powering up your kingdoms until you can compete with the meta. It won’t happen overnight, but can be done in a matter of months and it is so very satisfying when you can start beating the meta regularly.

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It’s a valid question, IMO. Allow me to offer another perspective:

A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away… okay, it was the 1990s, I was a student in college, and the setting in question was one of the text-only MUDs of that era that were a distant progenitor of games like World of Warcraft. I was an admin for a decent length of time during that period, and my last position (and eventual downfall) included oversight on new areas and specifically equipment balance, both within the zone and on a broader overall basis.

And your question had a pretty good parallel to that setting. Because most equipment didn’t see very much use at all. There was something of a “meta” for the most advanced players who had access to everything, and a secondary “meta” for the next tier of players who couldn’t get their hands on certain pieces of equipment that were hard-coded as limited – i.e., only a certain number could spawn in their entirety and then no more would spawn until one or more copies were “lost” or destroyed – et cetera. A similar scenario would arise for certain regions, by which some areas would seldom see adventurers and other areas may as well have had an active queue of players waiting for the re-spawn so they could slaughter everything.

And trying to keep all of that in balance? Trying to thread various needles to try and encourage more diversity? It’s an impossible task to do ahead of time, and a thankless task if you try and “ret-con” stuff to bring stuff back into line after the fact. If I tried to moderate stuff before it was released, I ended up with angry arguments from a developer/builder who felt I was trying to neuter his/her new region ahead of time. If I tried to balance stuff after release when it was demonstrated how out of whack things were, I was either accused by the players of ruining things for them or accused by the developer of the region that I had a bias against how great their stuff was.

And when some of those unhappy people had friends higher up in the administration of this place? Let’s just say I ended up taking fire from all sides. And before it could ever enter my mind to maybe throw up my hands and resign the position and let somebody else try to keep stuff in balance, an awful lot of those unhappy people saw to it that I no longer had to worry about doing that job. Or any job within that admin, despite the lengthy and varied services I had provided to them.

They never did solve that problem, by the way. Just watching from a distance and keeping quiet contacts with a few friends who were left after my departure, it seems like they stopped even making cosmetic attempts to address those imbalances. Which soon led to a situation where everybody had the same stuff and most of their equipment and region database was useless because nobody except the occasional newbie would bother with it while everybody fought over a very small fraction of it. And most of that everybody leaving never to be seen again.

So what do I view as the “moral” to my story? You’re probably right in that there needs to be better balance. But heaven help the person who actually tries to achieve that, because the popular stuff now has advocacy groups that will scream bloody murder if you touch “their thing”.

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but then why aren’t there several “meta” teams? At the moment everything is really dominated by one class of one weapon and two or three units.

I and many others simply lack a bit of variety here and the game would offer a certain variety with its many units and weapons.

Thank you very much Kezef for this insight into your world of experience! :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:
I’m torn between an understanding smile and a regretful sad look.

Of course I understand that on the one hand you need strong units and you have to work hard to get them. On the other hand, it can be dangerous if units/weapons/classes that are too strong become TOO dominant.

I think we’re going through such a phase at Gems right now and I just hope that someone finds themselves, or rather someone dares :wink: to improve this!

Can I ask how long you have been playing? Because the meta has changed many times since I started. Meta simply refers to what is “best” at a given time. It’s a superlative. You can’t really have multiple “bests” unless things are identical.

When something is best and gets nerfed, then something else becomes best. If that something else gets nerfed then a different thing will be best, etc etc etc.

That doesn’t automatically mean nerfs are never needed, of course.

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For more than 7 years!

Ok then I’ll try to put it another way: why only 1 meta team, why not several very strong teams?

If players are becoming fewer and fewer and more people are leaving the game, why not switch to a slightly more balanced system, a new kind of balance?

As a long-time player, I don’t necessarily have to have Stellarix. I have no need for status symbols to show how great I am. (and I have the feeling that this is the main reason why some players are so vehemently against weakening Stellarix)

I would be more happy if there were several very strong units and there were several strategies to build strong teams. Of course there have always been particularly powerful units in this game, but I feel like it’s never been this extreme and so few units have been this powerful!

Maybe this would be a good time to rethink things here!

Spoiler alert… I do not have Stellarix. I don’t even almost have Stellarix. I’m against weakening it for two reasons.

  1. Weakening it will NOT solve the stated problem of people not wanting to face the same team over and over. They would have to weaken it quite a bit for those that have it to stop using it in pvp. If they did, we would just see something else over and over again.

  2. They just BUFFED Stellarix to make it worth the chase. For reasons I personally do not understand, people throw a lot of money into gems, that they then throw at dragonite, to chase the card. The people that throw that money at the game, keep the game going for the rest of us, who don’t. If the tptb make a habit of bait and switching those paying players, they will quit and there will be no game for the rest of us. I’ll take the handful of pvp losses, instead.

This has already been answered, over and over and over again. There are already plenty of strong teams with no Stellarix. Well… there must be, since I don’t have Stella and seem to have no problem winning pvp battles. As for meta, its literally just a word used to describe the optimum. There is always going to be an optimum (unless they make all cards do exactly the same thing.) Therefore, unless they change how defense is set, we are always going to see the same teams over and over.

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Why do we need another topic that is the exact same as the one we already have?

Just read the pages and pages of discussion about it.

People have left over GWs being gone, journey troops being nerfed, pvp being changed - people would leave over nerfs to the current meta (that I personally don’t even understand why it is the meta because there are teams that can annihilate Stellarix/Takshaka/Wand teams fairly easily - to be fair, those are endgame teams either way, but blood frenzy is endgame content to me).

Players leaving isn’t a good argument for wanting more things to be nerfed.

It would be much better to fix pvp.

People only started complaining when the enemy team started to be the attack team everywhere, not just in central.

So maybe that is creating the issue rather than specific troops/weapons/classes?

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Soooooooooooo much this. Well… I get it outside of blood frenzy. In frenzy zones it is not meta to use the dragons. It might just be the way the frenzy zones move around and the attack teams don’t change unless people fight there?