@Kafka
Ouw? We got some infos ahead of time, hopes and dreams are crushed and we can adjust oneself to upcoming next to nothing.
Don’t get me wrong here. I appreciate it to already know now that we won’t ever have to worry about being compensated “fairly” and/or with a currency we actually “need”.
It also shows exactly that nothing much will change on those existing currencies ingame. For example “more” or “better fitting” daily deal offers. It seems a sure thing to “suspect” that this is also a (or the!) reason why “testing” is still stuck and noone is further doing anything or giving any update on that matter. It could break the economy if the daily deal offer situation would actually work correct and helpful.
Since you’re already available right now maybe you could throw in a quick comment about that?
Fair point. I did not know that Rings of Wonder subscription gets suspended, thanks for clarifying that. On the point of Gold, then, my compensation (fair) should be:
1000 gems
18M gold
32 * 80 * 3 = 7,680 trophies (for myself and my guild — that would have happened through gold farming alone)
Any issues you see with this logic? I would have farmed the gold (which is possible to farm in-game) if I was not banned unfairly, so I am not asking for anything that would not have happened.
You do realize that the only way to buy dragonite right now is through the 300-gem offer, which requires more than what you provided to the banned players (which was supposedly be higher than what will be provided to general), right? Just pointing out numbers in case no one checked.
Then please allow me this little follow up question even though it is “offtopic”, simply because you guys are hard to reach normally.
Is anybody even still working on a solution for the daily deal offers and with what “priority” is it handled internally?
Really I’m only asking this right now, because someone able to answer is present. If the answer is a “no”, then I’ll cope with it. It is what I already expect and with a clear answer I’ll just adjust and move on…
It would be majorly awesome, if someone would regularly - maybe once a month - make some time for some Q/A. “the players” could even send up questions beforehand. We don’t want to blindside anyone. And we don’t want to roast anyone. But it really would be nice if the common ground between players and devs could get a bit more even.
Not only no official stance on the Dragonite issue … I was silenced… So I’ll say it AGAIN… Dragonite is the ONLY acceptable compensation for a mess up this big… In order to truly make up for what was done and since the devs will NOT fix the biggest money/gem sink in the history of this game… Just give us the gems or the Dragonite we wasted on your force-feeding duplicate dragons… Top as well as low tier players know it’s an intentional money grab… All the while saying 200 gems will suffice as compensation for the devs breaking their own game… This is a compensation issue… Call it what you want… But… This… Is… A… LOOTBOX system… It should be illegal… And when asked about alternate ways to craft dragons… Instead of saying… “It’s coming” just do it… You say you care about the fan base… That’s an outright lie… We know it and the devs know it… I’ll skip any and all compensation if the greedy devs would just fix the dragon crafting issue. EDIT this isn’t directed at you @Kafka … Just the greedy devs who won’t look out for their own players
I’ve passed the extra feedback about comp on @Cronus but due to not being able to synch with the people I need to now until after the weekend I won’t have any new info til next week.
@icy I’ll set a reminder to go off on Monday to ask about that as I couldn’t find the info I needed to answer. (It’s after 7pm here so I’m the only one still at work).
all good @WishKiller I just can’t let the swearing slide is all so thank you for reposting without it.
Thanks. Since you seem to be listening (which by the way, to be fair, I always think that your (CX team) job is much harder than the devs, especially in cases like this), let me make a little bit deeper computation. Previously computed loss-of-resources:
1000 gems (from tribute)
18M gold (from gold farming)
7680 trophies (from gold farming)
Missed opportunity for medals: I found the following chart (unsure whether it is game data or combined community contribution, but you should again have more correct rates on your end):
I do gold farming exclusively in Glacial Peaks where my Kingdom Level is 16 (10% mythstone bonus). I get 73 mythstones on average per 5 fights (including the mini boss battle). In other words, I get a boss fight, every 6.85 regular fights. Counting the boss fight, I get a chance on boss chest every 7.85 fights. For the sake of simplicity (you can do this, but to me, it will complicate math too much) I will ignore mimic fights as well as lost/retreated fights (I will give a discount on retreated fights later on ). During my ban of 2 days, I missed the chance to make 2560 fights, in other words, 326.11 boss chests. To make things simpler moving forward and give you credit for potential losses, let’s assume 300 boss chests (I know, I am generous!).
According to the table above, from 300 boss chests, ignoring the bonus from mimic / hoard mimic chests, I would have gotten, on average:
300 * 0.125 = 37.5 Any tokens = 4 Anu medals + 1.5 Anu tokens.
You could continue computing this for other medals but I am at a point in the game, I don’t really care about anything but Nysha and Anu (even Anu, I care little), so that would be my main focus.
So, the final (fair) list:
1000 gems
18M gold
7680 trophies
1 Nysha medal + 2 Nysha badges, 4 Anu medals + 1.5 Anu tokens
60k gems would have been a bit much, but not even 600?
That would have been acceptable for me personally, but not for players who have been banned longer than I was - just saying.
It’s more gems than I would have made but I also lost out on gold, medals/tokens, a free pet from a code, keys… Not even considering missed gnomes or anything that can’t easily be quantified.
600 gems would not cover what I’ve lost but that would not have felt like an insult.
I’m getting the impression that whoever is holding this particular negotiation somehow thinks the “compensation” is being sent to everyone who ever installed the game the past 10 years. Your ban bot didn’t target the average 99% of players, it picked the most active ones, because only those exceeded whatever activity threshold the bans were incorrectly based on. 200 gems is nothing for those players, most of them probably spent at least 1k gems on the world event they couldn’t participate in due to bans, and that’s just the tip of the iceberg of things they missed out on.
Please drag Sirrian out of his ivory tower and make him aware that of the 8 million players he’s so proud of the small percentage that make up half of the current weekly server activity is getting told to eff off, in captial letters.
All I got from all this gem talk and the reason for it not dropping like it’s hot is because of the fact that the leaderboards could end up being chaotic
The thread got very informative real quick, but all I want to know is when my man Kris to da Krizel, Kris Krizzie will be back to normal.
Some try to argue they’re online (and playing/farming!) nearly 24/7 or grab 20+ rewards every(!) day. Sure, could be the case, I have to say, respect to your life(time) choices.
If we’re only talking “gems” as compensation, a realistic and somehwat fair amount for banned “more than average active” players could’ve been around 300-400 gems per day. Which also would’ve felt low to some, surely. But overall it wouldn’t feel like such a lowballing after the company messed up.
Some obligatory “sorry we f’d up” amount should be a cherry on top of that. If we had landed on 500 gems per day overall this wouldn’t have wrecked any economy and would’ve felt “fair” to most people. Lower level players that didn’t even notice anything would’ve been like “man, this is nice” and the active bunch of players would’ve set “man it still sucks that I couldn’t play, but at least it’s something”.
I really can’t understand the fact that the decision fell on 200 gems. I could see this being the absolute minimum amount as compensation to “every account” - not just a banned player.
Did noone think of a individual compensation amount in gems consisting of “Ingame Level / 2”, f.e. Ingame Level is 500/1000/1500/2000 […], you receive 250/500/750/1000 […] gems.
Would this ruin the economy? Not at all. Does anyone of your team have to pay up personally and is the amount chosen so low because of that?
Without trying to be greedy, I personally wasn’t banned, but after the first batch of forum posts of incoming bans went public I basically stopped playing gow as I normally would’ve. Where’s “my compensation”? I still collected some hourly tributes but not as many as I would’ve. And as mentioned I didn’t play matches in fear of a ban due to at that time unknown reasons.
I suspected a chance to get banned without knowledge about the reason and on if or when this would be reversed would’ve hit more severely. Judging from that lowball compensation amount my suspicion/expectation on that matter was correct and is confirmed now.
Such things destroy trust. Trust that already suffered over the last few years. Would it break a prong out of the crown? What a clownfest.
I agree with the general feeling here. It is not even the height of the ‘compensation’ itself but the lack of understabding of the impact this thing had on the players affected.
Between the ban, this ‘compensation’ and the lottery that the dungeon has become, it is very hard to stay motivated. I opened my 15th Dragon Egg today with the predictable result of another dupe.
If I was not the Leader of my Guild I think this would be my breaking point. I think the guild mechanic has been vital to the success of the game over the years and I am aware that the work I have been doing has helped retaining the players for the game. I am sure this is true for more people that have been affected by the ban. The potential cost of this incident to the game itself has still the potential of being very high in my opinion and should not be underestimated.
edit: That said, I am very happy with the openess about what happened and some of the processes behind the scene. This has been sorely missed and I am glad that that it isback.
First, I’d give credit to @Kafka for taking the brunt of this without having the direct ability to change anything single-handedly. Staying employed was a refreshing bit of honesty that shouldn’t go unrecognized.
That said-- there was never going to be any kind of chance that the gem compensation would be a) exactly equal to playing completely optimized for the entire time of the ban and b) anything other than gems for their universality.
And it still missed the mark. I believe there’s (formally or informally) a sliding scale for compensation based on the severity of the mistake. So…what happens when the severity goes beyond the boundaries of what they had planned for? You pick a number at the top end of your “scale” and hope you don’t get the exact backlash that’s happening right now.
200 gems severely missed the mark before even accounting for the extra slack the players that weren’t banned had to spend. I would be shocked if the compensation for the group at large would be anything higher than 50 gems with this 200 set as the precedent.
I also expect the Vault compensation to be pushed aside. We know a Vault event was changed to Arena right alongside the release of the new orbs. Not only would I not expect a week-long Vault weekend, I wouldn’t expect any kind of compensation in the form of a Vault event.
Again, I feel for Kafka’s position here-- I’ve spent the better part of 20 years working with the public and having to explain economic decisions that were made behind the scenes by decision makers who would never dare show their face much less be held accountable for their (in)actions. The “waiting to hear on a Vault event” could and should be interpreted as “waiting to run out the clock until the heat subsides and the player base moves on”.
With that, I would recommend to keep the conversation going but keeping it focused on the one universal asset (in this case gems) and keep focusing on the need for clarity and not kicking the can down the road ad infinitum. Clogging up the thread with other issues (while 100% correct in their own right) only serves to muddy the picture and allow this disorganized mess to drag on and on.
Since this is a chance to give feedback as part of a negotiation here is my question, and mind you I was not banned during this time. Normally when there is a larger bug people get 50 gems as an “I’m sorry”.
To me not only does 200 gems not fully compensate those who were unable to play, but where is the “I’m sorry” part of things? They were unable to play due to an issue that wasn’t their fault. I know I didn’t play for a couple days other than my guild event sigils out of fear of getting banned. What is the goodwill gesture for what transpired whether accidental or not?
First thing: I didn’t get banned, and no-one else in my guild got banned either (as far as I know). I’m not asking for anything for myself
What I would think is fair compensation is the following:
Gems and gold: Players should be rewarded with the amount of tribute they would have collected had they logged in exactly once an hour were they able to do so. For a player generating an average of 30 gems every hour, that would be 2160 gems if they were banned for 72 hours.
Dragonite: Players missed out on 3 attempts at the dungeon, with a 10% chance of success for each. I think giving them 1 bunch of dragonite seems fair.
Events: Players should be compensated with any items from completing guild and solo events that they missed out on. Guildmates of banned players should also receive any rewards they may have won if their guildmates had been able to contribute to these events. Obviously I’m referring to the rewards for completing all stages of the events, and not leaderboard rewards.
Farming game modes for resources: While I think players should be compensated for missing out on any events running during the time they were wrongly banned, I don’t think it is necessary to compensate them for anything they could have earned by farming modes of the game that are permanently available.
Also, I realise that the proposed amount of gems, gold and dragonite are in excess of the amount they could reasonably expect to have obtained during that time (does anyone collect 72 tributes in 72 hours?), but that would hopefully compensate for the player not being able to grind various game modes during that time.
Anyhoo, that’s what I would propose. Full compensation for lost tributes, full compensation for lost event rewards, plus some Dragonite.
BTW, I didn’t find out about the bug until it was known that Kris Krinkle caused it, (which I had not used at that time), but I understand that others did, and that they may have, as a result, not logged in to the game at all until it was fixed. This does constitute grounds for a small “I’m sorry” compensation to all players, whether they were banned or not.
Its no biggie though. Like I said, I’m not asking for anything personally, although if everyone gets it I’ll happily accept mine
). During my ban of 2 days, I missed the chance to make 2560 fights, in other words, 326.11 boss chests. To make things simpler moving forward and give you credit for potential losses, let’s assume 300 boss chests (I know, I am generous!).
