If you’re all still keen I’ll update this. New class shortly too.
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I don’t think they can touch and edit those talents as their game code is ‘fixed in place’ or ‘engraved in stone’ because the game engine was ported to Unity, but the original tools to edit those were never available or given to them to begin with.
I hope I am wrong though.
Bandit summons were changed from 50% to 35%.
35% feels like 90% now, and it used to be better when it was 50%.
Summons should be at 20% or 25%. Period.
I haven’t really played PvP in months so I don’t know about that but I agree it should be 20% and maybe 25% for unique traits.
Then we both agree. Yes, it’s worse than it was when Bandits were at 50%, believe me.
It’s always better to provide some stats to show that you’re right (or not), better than saying something based on negativity bias…
Talents came after the change to Unity. You’re thinking of Hero Class Traits… Those seem to be set in stone.
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I have upgraded the spreadsheet for the Corsair class. Honestly I think this class in particular is a perfect example of almost every problem with classes in general, as listed in my original topic post.
Changes:
- New classes - Plaguelord, Dervish, Tidecaller, Hierophant and Corsair.
- Added a “Fast Mana Start” yes/no qualifier to the cell below each class’s analysis.
- Other miscellaneous fixes.
- Screwed up some of the formatting. Or rather, fixing it will take longer than I want. Its okay, I’m the only one who can tell the difference.
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“Corsair:
Unremarkable traits and rather useless talent options. Nothing to see here. Anything this class can do, something else can do better.”
Its not hard to see you have a low opinion of links, but its a bit silly when it gets to the point that a +2 water link is considered unremarkable and being able to stack it to +3 water link isn’t even considered over Dodge.
This class isn’t being picked for Dodge.
Its not the strongest class ever, but it can be valuable in a blue heavy team. Lightning Strike isn’t the answer to every mana gain issue.
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It’s hard for me to talk about that because there are wide and narrow contexts at play. I think you’re both right.
The narrow context is, “Will Corsair be good for this team?” I’m certain there are teams that want the +2 link. I’m sure Shimrra believes that too.
But I think the worksheet is looking at the broader, “How many teams want this?” context. +2 blue link is statistically good for 20% of all teams if I make a really simple estimate. It’ll have little to no effect on up to 80% of the teams that don’t heavily use blue.
Lightning Strike, on the other hand, is good on practically all teams. It may not be the best, but it’s always good. It doesn’t have dead-in-the-water teams like a blue link skill would on an all-red team.
From that wide viewpoint, it’s true that Corsair is useful on fewer teams than classes that have Lightning Strike. However, if you’ve already built a team around blue, Corsair does become a notable choice.
Comparing +2 blue link to lightning strike on one particular team is tough. For that kind of comparison I don’t like to do it on paper. I like to play 50 matches and roll with the one that I think feels the most consistent.
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Okay I’ll bite, +2 is actually a lot. Especially when you factor in that Corsair also gets Water Link talent as an option. It just doesn’t seem unique enough. Definitely not thematic. And it doesn’t make me want to go test out teams to see if I can min-max something into being better with this than something else.
And I do like links, just not for a legendary trait. (And I still think those talents should be more accessible than lvl70…)
Fought it on PvP, a scary +3 blue mana with his own blue weapon, it died with 0 mana gained on the weapon.
Looking foward to face more of those good hero/weapons in GW defs for free points.
A class that start at 0 mana, dont have stealth, dont explode anything, dont self clean,dont dispel, isnt tanky at all, dont have any decent immunity (except insulated from talents) and got lame lvl 100 talent too (ok, that’s quite common among classes).
All this class can do is summon bandits/heronats and get a bit more mana than others from blue matches (but seen the +x mana dont get multiplied anyway on surges isnt such a big advantage, also if you take water mastery say bye bye to heronats, making him crap as summoner too).
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That’s the thing though, it isn’t and can be detrimental in the wrong places. Most noticeably when you’re facing off against an empowered converter and your lightning strike ends up bringing more color that you don’t want to see on the board. I.E. Brown day/brown gems vs Yao Guai/Tai-Pan. Once it triggers, the gems it brings back on the board can be unpredictable and backfire heavily.
Sure, you can easily just “win” before it becomes an issue, but other times you’re stuck with a dead board with a dangerous chain reaction waiting to happen.
Having Frozen troops just happens to make it a lot worse.
Lightning Strike is a better choice under most circumstances, but sometimes, it isn’t.
Do not turn my perfectly good thread into an argument about specific classes anything, actually. Please.
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I wonder if the developers even read your suggestion post yet.
They say that they read them all, but you can’t be sure these days.
I guess we shall see once the Class rework is next to come.
Most likely they will do something stupid, and increase the Champion Levels above Level 100, just because of someone thought that this is a good idea.
@Saltypatra, what’s next now?
I’m going to make an analogy on the wide/narrow or “But it’s bad in this case!” discussion.
I’ve got a plain old hammer in my garage. But there are a lot of different kinds of hammers. Some are smaller. Some are bigger. But I chose this middle size because for 99% of my jobs I can use it effectively. In a pinch, it can do the same job as a smaller hammer. I just have to be more delicate than I would if I had the right tool. And in a pinch it can put holes in things like a sledgehammer. I just have to exert more force.
Now imagine trying to say the same thing about a sledgehammer. You aren’t going to fasten the parts of a picture frame with it, you can’t be delicate. And you aren’t going to hang pictures with it, you can’t be delicate. That’s why I don’t have a sledgehammer hanging in my garage. I can rent/borrow one if I have a job that requires it, and the hammer I have does a good job all-around.
So:
- Some things are great at one niche, but bad in general.
- Some things are OK in general but bad at niches.
I value generalized workhorses, but wouldn’t mind having a war chest of niche classes.
That’s as far as I intend to go with this discussion, there are too many good points in Shimrra’s analysis to start nitpicking over “B-b-but I think this one class is better designed than you say!” That doesn’t do anything to change the overall analysis so it’s sort of a moot point to raise.
I think what Shimrra’s analysis says, oversimplified, is:
- We do not have adequate coverage of niches to call the classes “a war chest”.
- There are a handful of all-arounder talents so good at so many things it overemphasizes the classes with them.
- Many classes don’t even attempt to cover a niche any better than a random Epic troop.
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*Stares pointedly at Knight class*
Good luck with that, that one always gotta reply offensively every time i post seem rofl.
Now just about Sunspear:
B1 gw as champion, defo Sunspear is bad :3
I wish more ppls would follow such osom advices on ps4, 59k in gw would be the standard then, so ppls PLS use corsair on def and pick hunt! so dont even have to worry about one of the few decent talent it got (snap freeze), and yes, gogo for deluge, when in gw 99% of time you go for skulls deluge is defo something vital.
A little comparison that show how great is corsair with his own weapon, corsair with +2 blue banner and +3 from trait/talent and his weapon vs frostmage with +2 blue banner , water mastery talent and doomblade.
A single 3 match, mana surge will give corsair 11 mana, nowhere enough to fill his weapon (let alone a doomblade), same surge will give you a full and rdy to cast doomblade on Frostmage.
Oh, but maybe you mean for attacking? if so, seen the +2 blue only day in GW corsair would be useful would be blue, a day where ALL you need is Forest troll, Gobtruffle, Maraj queen and w/e class can counter best the enemy team to roflstomp anything AND for that team green/greenstorm is way more important than some more blue mana.
Spreadsheet updated for Archmagus.
Changes:
- New classes - Stormcaller, Diabolist, Slayer, Archmagus.
- Added Corsair’s fast mana start via Captain Macaw.
Disappointed but not surprised that the devs have utterly failed to do anything about these issues.
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