Am I missing something??? Is this class or the 3rd trait paywalled or does everyone have access to it? Exactly, no nerf required.
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Why are a nerf neccessary tho, I am sure your winning rate against pretty much any teams is 95 % if not more?
Rather buff the 500 useless troops that needs it.
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Iām still trying to understand why people call for nerfs.
I know GoW meta has been pretty much static, and change is hardā¦ Butā¦ Why?
Leave the good stuff alone.
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Long term health of the game, which might not even be a valid concern at this point. I donāt think it is āgoodā for Elementalist to be this overpowered. I donāt even think the proposed nerf is that bad: the class would still be functional, and could do everything, but with more luck and a little less power.
Whatās the easiest way to make 100 troops useless? Make an OP troop.
Every player has access to this you just have to go through the story line unlocking kingdoms and do the class challenge. It might be a tougher class to face in pvp but in the end that doesnāt matter much as pvp will always be heavily scaled in favour of the attacker who gets to act first and can often kill an opponent without even handing over the first turn.
Many longer term players might not care as much but the for a beginner who might be lacking any good options for stun entangle burn and freeze because they donāt have a bunch of mythics or legendary troops this is perfect at helping them progress in the harder daily adventures, dungeons, pet rescues, delves and explore modes and challenges letting them experience more content without feeling like they will never get to the point other players are.
Only in pvp and guild wars will you ever face AGAINST it the rest of the time it is 100% FOR YOUR BENEFIT. Most of those who do a lot of pvp and gw are exactly the types of people who have a lot of mythic options and can counter it easily since you can always see the defense team in these and create a team specifically tuned to defeat it giving even further advantage than just the first turn.
I see no good reason at all to nerf it.
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I said it before - tried using it on my usual pvp defense team that wins about 50/50. It works better with priest of all classes so elementalist isnāt even a surefire buff to every defense team.
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Iām not generally pro nerfing things but Iām surprised that the anti nerfers donāt get the argument in principle. Saying āitās too your benefit, we all have itā is not the point - I donāt want the game to be easy, I want it to be fun. Strong, interesting cards or classes create interesting new combinations and add to the fun. Cards or classes that are genuinely OP compared to others make it less fun. Why? Imagine a card that cost 1 mana to cast and had the spell ākill all the other teamā. I get the first move so it is to my advantage. It would make the game easier and faster but to me would not be fun anymore. And before anyone jumps is and says that this is not a fair analogy because you can still lose with Elementalist, yes I get that, Iām just using an extreme example to make the point that genuinely OP cards are not actually fun for everyone. To me, Elementalist is more than strong, it is OP - for example it renders Frostmage, previously one of the best classes, completely obsolete. Personally Iād prefer a 3rd trait something like ā50% chance to inflict freeze, etc on 4 matchā. That would still make it one of the most powerful classes but might move it from OP to just very strong. As it is, having any class that is the best one to use in most teams is not fun because the fun comes from thinking creatively about team composition. And again to anticipate the next response, yes, I know I can still choose to use another class but thatās still missing the point - for me what is fun is working out the best team to win and having a range of options to play with, any one of which could potentially be best.
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Same, sometimes it feels like they wants every good thing in this game to get nerfed so all we have left is a soup with useless troops to choose from.
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No, just things that unbalance the game.
How many times has there been a Meta which overpowers everything else? Dawnbringer was like this originally, recently it was Goblin teams, now Elementalist comes along to try to deal with that, but it creates issues of its own.
It used to be that a Level 12 explore was a challenge, but, at the moment Iām using Flammifer, Centuragon, Zuul Goth and Leprechaun to stroll through them 10 moves or fewer.
I donāt hardly have to think about what Iām doing, just bash, bash, bash, Token, Badge, Medal.
And donāt tell me āyou can use a more difficult team if you wantā because thatās just missing the point.
5 Likes
I do get your argument saying it is too strong and unbalances the game. I do not think any of us miss the point of that argument. I like a challenge and facing fully leveled elementalist on the right teams in pvp is fun. The prevalence of goblin teams and lust teams is less and now I see more teams using cleanse mechanics and impervious troops to counter it while still faring against other classes because it is not something so weak we can just ignore it and do business as usual.
There are a lot of strong cards and weapons and to say elementalist is stronger than them I canāt agree with. sure most of the classes are too weak to really make a big difference unless it perfectly fits the team but that also limits the teams to often using weak troops a lot of the classes we simply use for a storm or 50% start it is nice to have a meaningful option. To me it is nice to see actual change in the meta of pvp teams because previously there were not many good counter options. Sure I can agree some classes should get a buff because they never see use. I would love to see frostmage get an actual buff to its freeze mechanic so there is more reason to use it and get the 50% buff and spell reductions it has.
The problem is many of these classes were built before a lot of the powerful troops and weapons we have access to now. For most that really shows. I donāt imagine any of us will change your mind about it being too strong but you have to at least realize there are a lot of us who think it is perfectly fine as is and while inarguable that it is a strong class I do not think it is too strong to exist. We can all agree many classes are in fact too weak to be meaningful or in some cases even useable. Is it enjoyable to only pick a class ever for type synergy or a storm or a semi useful trait and really not actually feel it being there? There is always power creep in games and since new classes donāt happen often it is inevitable that power creep will happen there too. But I do not think elementalist is the issue I think the problem is existing classes already felt too weak because they are old and out dated and they never really considered how they would hold up over time as zuul goths and beetrix and gobtruffle type troops were released. Some of the classes are quite strong but could use a little touch up but many feel like they need a complete overhaul that would be the case with or without elementalist.
1 Like
Elementalist is a safe class against goblins or skull spam teams but itās not the best or the answer to every situation.
If you think that, maybe you need to re-examine.
You may want to have a cleanse for the hero, a permanent storm, fireblade, a 50% manastart, stealthyā¦
I really donāt think that elementalist makes every team better.
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Iām pretty sure I didnāt say that it makes every team better or that is always the best choice
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I didnāt say you explicitly said it makes every team better. I said āif you think thatā ā¦ Itās not the same as saying āsince you think thatā.
What I donāt understand is people saying itās OP and/or the most powerful class but simultaneously acknowledge that it doesnāt make every team better. Not you specifically, just in general.
Why ask for a nerf of a class thatās merely another good class to choose from and not the only viable option?
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Just because something is objectively one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful, doesnāt make it an auto-pick. If that were a thing youād never see a team without Beetrix or Zuul on it, ever - but you do.
This is arguably the strongest class because it does virtually everything that some of the currently strongest classes do but better. Are there some specific teams where you would rather use Sunspear, Stormcaller, Thief/Orbweaver or Monk? Sure. However, two of the strongest classes (Titan and Frostmage) have been made virtually redundant and a lot of the teams that use other classes can be swapped out to Elementalist and be likely to be more successful.
Simply put; before this, I had serious considerations as to whether to use Titan, Monk, Sentinel, Runepriest, Frostmage, Tidecaller or Slayer on non-specific team builds. Now I just auto gravitate towards Elementalist or Monk. Reducing viability is never fun imo.
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Elementalist class is fine. Let them fix bugs before you even think about suggesting changes to things that are working fine.
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To be clearer, my 2 biggest complaints are:
- Easy stun + entangle, being applied in that order. Even with Nimble, the front troop can still get entangled easily.
- Frozen applied better than frostmage class.
Having come from Marvel Puzzle Quest, at the beginning there were a variety of different ways you could play the game. However, power creep made it so you could not compete without the newer stuff. If you took a break for a few months, you were out of the competitive game without mega $$$, and all your previous work would be meaningless compared to those who started and grinded during that time. To get to the top, there was only one way: Use the latest and greatest. And it got boring. Maybe Iām the wrong crowd to appeal to, and maybe constantly new and shiny will make the most bucks and not hollow out interest. However, I donāt even get how theyād be making money from a class, while incentivizing ignoring other classes. Most people donāt consider the long term or appealing to different game styles.
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To be overpowered is, for some of us, not the same thing as saying it is the best choice in every single team on every single occasion. I think by that definition of OP, nothing would ever be OP (which does seem to be the view of some and maybe the origin of this discussion). To me, OP means it is so often the best choice that as Asmodous says, it significantly reduces the need to think about your team set up. Hmm, which class is best for this teamā¦? Oh, itās Elementalist yet again. Iām the kind of person who has 25 different PVP teams set up, each targeted to beat a specific class of teams. I donāt want to just stomp all over everything with one team. If over half of those teams use a single class or card (and currently about 2/3 are set to Elementalist) then I think that class or card is OP
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Just so you know, Sunspear is still my favorite class. Elementalist is just one of those classes I can use. I am thankful it is not another Oracle class. I still use a variety of classes up to this point. I even use Priest class over Monk at times depending on my mood. So far, the only class I canāt appreciate is Oracle. Most players who think itās OP is becauseā¦.they only have a few classes leveled to 100. 
Never had a chance to play other classes at full potential.
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So Monk was the OP class before for GW situations as almost all teams anyone suggested had Monk - still not sure how the next GW will go or if elementalist will even be used as much as it now may seem.
Definitely against infinite loop teams - but to be honest, they needed a counter really badly and Frostmage mostly wasnāt doing it.
But really, Iād very much prefer buffs to useless classes over a nerf to one of the few good ones.
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Yeah; Frostmage pretty much sucks in itās unreliability to freeze especially when you think that is where its strength should be. I lost a few guild wars battles to goblins because FM failed to hit on its useless 25% chance to freeze, which is why I never really use it any longer (and that was before Elementalist was released). Instead of people complaining about Elementalist, how about complaining that Frostmage should be buffed?
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