This isn’t something I’ve witnessed. My point was that under OP’s proposal it will occur and that it would be a bad thing if it did.
Most people agree there should be ways to speed up a good guild’s progression out of the dead guild zones, but beyond that, agreement on how fast & methodology differs greatly with no consensus of what’s “fair” to all guilds.
The devs have confirmed that EVERY guild must manually register for EVERY war. That means removing guilds who don’t play wouldn’t work because they continue to re-register. Why? Because even doing nothing, they still get some tiny reward for “participating” and GW is the only way to get the 6 GW reward troops (they occasionally can be in various event shop drops but that’s rare). These troops count for kingdom progression and since you can use orbs on them, you just have to register for GW to get the 1 copy.
Pushing all 0 scores down to the bottom-most brackets automatically regardless of what bracket they’re in would be useful in helping active guilds jump up faster. But then you’ll just have a bunch of guild just do a battle or 2 to avoid a 0 score.
Perhaps an incentive to get guilds who want their free rewards but don’t want to play in GW out of the brackets would be to add an option during registration that opts the guild out of being included in bracketing, but gives them the base reward that they’d have gotten for no activity at the end of week? I can still see issues with this but any guilds courteous enough to opt out would at least remove a small part of the issue.
Perhaps, to avoid some of the issues with 0 score, the guilds with less than 60k points (I’ve assumed one player can’t score more than this) can be pushed down to the very bottom bunch of brackets.
Then guilds with less than 120k points be pushed to a bunch of brackets just above the bottom bunch. I use bunch here as I don’t know how many brackets there are in total.
A multi-tiered system might be better, just based on all the comments. Tier 1, Tier 2 and Tier 3 etc.
Tier 1, all new guilds start here. Reach 50k points to move up.
Tier 2, newly arrived guilds start at the bottom. Points based bracketing. Up to 200k before moving up a to next Tier.
Tier 3, 200-500k, as above.
Tier 4, 500k+ brackets are as they exist now.
Points values are arbitrary, I don’t know what would be appropriate. But the idea is get the high level guilds up to the higher end brackets fast and the lower/mid level guilds get a better array of guilds to fight against.
Anyway, if guild wars has a been a problem since release maybe it just needs to be retired.
The most common result for a bracket’s Top Scoring Guild (TSG) is to advance 2 brackets, but the bracket 3 TSG does not advance to bracket 1. I think this is method justified.
The most common result for a bracket’s Lowest Scoring Guild (LSG) is to drop 2 brackets, but the LSG in bracket 1 only drops to bracket 2. I feel this method is also justified, but only IF the LSG actually competes.
The HSG may advance higher if their score is ‘above and beyond’ that of their competitors.
I feel the LSG should moved down by a similar method if their score is significantly lower than that of their competitors.
The guilds that only register to collect rewards deserve a bracket unto themselves in the same way players that only log in to collect guild rewards do. Both might fight a few battles to appear active and avoid being kicked. But if you wouldn’t want such a player in your guild, why would you tolerate such a guild in your bracket?
Support your local Raider. Upvote my proposal today. chunky mono, For the Horde.
This isn’t really a solution for the current situation, in which the starting Bracket for any new guild is already 400-500+.
Sure, each new guild that registers pushes that number even further, but doesn’t address pre-existing guilds.
Moreover, it’s not just the fact that the guilds are created, it’s also that registration is simple, encouraged (“Register Now!”, and guaranteed rewards) and irreversible (even if the guild is disbanded…).
Another compounding factor is, imo, the Guild and Guild Search interface.
New players are prompted to join a Guild as one of their early tutorial (or Adventure Board?) tasks.
While a completely dead guild won’t show up in the Guild Search for them, guilds that only have a small amount of activity, and potentially lots of inactive (‘Zzz’) players, will.
While IN a guild, you can’t use the Guild Search to look for another
And for a new player who doesn’t know the benefits of being in a guild or the consequences of leaving (‘Leave Guild’), there isn’t necessarily a clear reason or motivation for them to leave and go searching until/unless they get frustrated with the lack of progress and go searching for solutions, not necessarily successfully.
The Guild Search also lacks nuance, and transparency. Being able to filter and sort ALL non-inactive Guilds, or at least a sorted list with the possibility of scrolling to the next page, by categories such as:
Requirements (Seals, Gold, Trophies, Level), Guild Level, League Rank, GW Rank, Tasks and Event stages completed the previous week (or if not sorted by, then somehow visible), ‘Zzz’ players – tbc.
The Guild experience component of the game is huge, and I think relying on the current Guild Search or Chat to home new players is insane.
While some players may enjoy or aim for solo play,
The possibility remains for new players to be unaware of the opportunities out there, and spread out amongst various minorly active guilds that only slowly trickle down the Brackets.
Solo play doesn’t necessarily have to come at the expense of competition participation for group/full-guild play, even if it currently can.
In sum, I think the general sentiment that “there are too many guilds” and that “it’s too easy to make a guild” isn’t the right angle to look at, particularly because the development team has already (I believe) indicated they don’t think this is a problem and/or they still want people to be able to make guilds and experience the various aspects of the game as a solo and/or low-level player. My take is that ignoring this means that (reasonably/fairly or not) much of what could be fruitful discussion gets shelved as unable to be acted upon.
Some folks don’t like being told which bracket or guild they’ll be fighting in. Some people are too big to be Thieves. And some Orcs don’t use technology well enough to use twitch/discord.
So, the other 4 to 5 guilds in the Unforgiven family can just ‘suck it up’ then? What if you all expand to 10 guilds? Some of them may benefit from not having to navigate the Dead Guild Seas. Just be advised: There be Raiders. And we hungry.
Guild Wars is like any problem nobody ever solves: there are several problems and no one “just do this and it’s fine” solution that will work. It is poorly designed for the state of GoW right now, but it wasn’t poorly designed for the GoW that was around when it was created.
The prospects of it changing seem slim. A lot of player ego is tied up in the rankings. A lot of players fought for more than a year to get where their guild is. To pull it away will hurt their feelings, probably enough to cause a lot of players to quit.
It’s not as simple as “just change scoring”, it’s not as simple as “just change brackets”, it’s not as simple as “just change guild creatin/registration”, etc. All of it has to change at the same time, and it seems like it’d be better to just make a different, new game mode at this point.
If fixing Gems of War was easy, Doomed Blade and Club would no longer have Watery and Carved affixes.
The mechanism that allows bracket winners to advance multiple brackets seems to help newer guilds advance more quickly. I’ve noticed some guilds crack the top ten brackets on Xbox in 12-15 months, depending. Obviously, there are more guilds on pc/mobile, so I would imagine it takes longer on those platforms.
And while simply using a similar mechanism to drop bracket losers wouldn’t fix everything with GW, it does sound simpler to me than a massive rework to the entire GW system.
As simple as say, fixing Watery and Carved, which isn’t simple at all. Allegedly.
I think this topic has been discussed to death already. The problem and solution have both been stated in other threads many times but here we go…
The problem is that movement through the lower brackets is still way too slow. Movement at the top end seems perfectly fine but at the bottom end it takes way too long for new but strong guilds to progress up to equivalent competition.
The solution is to tweak the bracket movement algorithm so that movement is very much accelerated the closer to the bottom of the bracket list the guild currently is. The algorithm has already allowed for larger movement based on dominating bracket victories, so that just needs to be adjusted to be even more drastic based on position in the list.
Something along the lines of allowing guilds to move up as much as 50% or 60% of the ladder above them (based on how lop-sided the bracket victory was) is probably warranted at the bottom end. As the guild gets nearer to the top that needs to taper off until movement in the top 10 brackets is unchanged from how it is now.
The real question is do they want to put the time and effort into changing it? I would assume probably not at this time.
It is definitely a slow grind. Our 1st guild wars was week of 8/26/2019 and that was in bracket #474 (PC/Mobile). One year later, we are in bracket #165. It appears, we’re at a point where the jump is only going to be in the 20 brackets range per GW (has been for the last 2). So, may be a minute before we get to see top 50 brackets.
Luckily, we have had 30 guild members the entire time and the core group has stuck together with this march. One positive starting so low and having awesome guild mates, no one has been selfish and everyone has contributed gold, gems, and time in order to complete all the basic/epic/legendary tasks & every event. This has helped the “non-veteran” players build there rosters & classes and to become “veteran” players.
All said, some of us wish the climb were faster, but there are definitely those who are just fine having cPVP GW matches
SarcasticGimp
PC main - Final Destination
Xbox - Dragon Army
PC Alt - Audles
I’m not sure if this has been mentioned before, but here’s something I would propose.
For guilds in the top 10-15 brackets, the current system is working OK. If you’re 15 and absolutely smashing it, 7 jumps later you’ll be in Bracket 1. This puts a cap from bottom to top in this tier of just over half a year.
For the next tier of guilds, let’s say up to bracket 50 for argument’s sake, create a “system predefined” set of 6 opponents. To save time and ensure competitiveness, we could use the teams from the top 6 guilds in B1 from the last GW.
Have ALL guilds in this 2nd tier battle against these same opponents, and THEN rank them according to these scores to award rewards (possibly reworking reward tiers). Promote the top 5 guilds from this tier into Bracket 15 the next time around, and drop the bottom 5 from bracket 15 into this tier. Drop perhaps 10%-15% of guilds from this tier into the next tier (and promote correspondingly). Yes this means you get 1 chance to get into the top 50% of bracket 15 when you get there, or you’re back into the abyss.
The next tier may feature a different set of opponents, or perhaps just power down the opponents a little, e.g. -20% kingdom/guild/pet/renown/artifact bonuses across the board. Depending on how many tiers there are in total, a completely new guild may need 5, maybe 9 jumps from bottom tier to tier 1 (bracket 1-15), and then another 7 jumps to B1 - maximum of say 15 months.
There are various things that can be tuned with this suggestion, just throwing it out there as a starting point.
