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Guild Wars - why hasn't this been done already?

Bracketing should be based entirely on points scored in the previous guild wars. No random up or down. Literally just based on score.

If your guild has 200,000 points. And another guild has 200,001 points. Your guild will be below that other guild.

It seems incredibly simple.

It solves a couple of annoying problems as well. A guild that scores 200,000 points will never ever be facing off against a guild scoring 1,200,000 points.

And guilds that don’t play at all will reside in the 0 points bracket facing off against other guilds that score… 0 points. In other words, it takes the dead guilds out of guild Wars.

This will have next to no effect on high level guilds. But it would probably make for a fierce fight for the top. Conjecture on my part.

But for mid to low level guilds, the difference is huge.

No more players quitting because of getting slaughtered in seconds by uber teams - at least less likely.

No more high score days because the guild you’re up against is dead and slowly falling down the chart.

It’s a lot easier to calculate, math wise and therefore program/code wise.

It seems like everyone wins.

So the question is why hasn’t this been done already?

2 Likes

Just because a guild scores 1.2 mil in bracket 30 does not mean they will score 500k against good guilds.

How would you make sure that good guilds are against good guilds and newer guilds placed against newer guilds, etc.?

6 Likes

with that kind of scoring, to win GW you just need to open up a new guild, fill it with endgamers, and let them score 30/30 57k against single players guild.

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Where to start…this is all kinds of wrong and it’s been debated numerous times with no simple solution from the community to satisfy even close everyone.

Just NO. First, there is no “random up or down”. Everything is already literally based on your score within your bracket. You take 1st/2nd/3rd, you’re moving up. 8th/9th/10th you’re moving down. Everyone else stays. Some exceptions were added to fast-track high performing guilds up the brackets, but that’s all algorithm based, not random.

The lower the bracket you’re in, then easier to score high. Which means guilds can move from B50 to B5 in a single leap, which will lead to this consequently:

Absolutely wrong. B1-2 guilds certainly don’t deserve to drop 8 brackets because they’re fighting much harder battles and being displaced by B10 guilds scoring higher in much easier battles (until those B10 guilds have fought their way up 1-2 brackets at a time to prove themselves). Competition in top brackets will diminish because random high-scoring guilds will jump into them, completely unprepared for the whoop-ass that will be unleashed upon them.

You proposal would be the opposite of being able to calculate anything easily because no one would ever be able to see what bracket they’ll be going to. The current system you can immediately know where you’re going next (with some exceptions in mid to lower brackets where high performers jump more than the normal number of brackets).

Just because it seems “incredibly simple” doesn’t mean it is.

7 Likes

This is just silly. B1 on Xbox is the same 7 or 8 guilds every time and the 2 or 3 that move up quickly get moved back. The cream is already at the top folks. There really are no really strong guulds coming from B80 that can challenge the top guilds. Even though 7 or 8 guilds stay in B1 there are really only 4 at the most that contend for 1st - 4th. All that’s in question is the order.

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I five-million percent agree that this is an issue – in my last GW, our Guild scored ~1.25 mil, we were actually beaten by another guild with ~1.42 mil, and then the next highest score was ~100,000 :rage: :slightly_frowning_face:.

It’s friggin’ annoying and frustrating to only have one day of competition a week, it’s much too slow and largely inadequate. I estimate that I will retire from GoW before we reach a Bracket with a full week of reasonable competition.

Basing it solely on points probably isn’t the right solution, though, I don’t think, for the reasons other people have mentioned – mainly that points are more difficult to earn against tougher opponents – but I appreciate another instance of a player/Guild being short-changed as a result of lagging Brackets being brought up again.


Side-note/Food for thought – GW is considered by development to be a mode that only a small portion of the player base enjoys, and this is perhaps why we see low levels of participation from a lot of guilds (aside from there not being very many people in some guilds, and rewards not changing a whole lot based on performance).

I think this might partly be a little bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy or feedback loop, though.

I think the stakes need to be higher for mid-Bracket guilds!

I also think the lack of appropriate (not too high, not too low) competition can make it boring and pointless.

Some people also find it stressful – but given the large number of guilds that only participate a little bit, if mid-level Brackets were better distributed, I think we’d see the ability for a more stress-free, while still rewarding GW at mid-high Brackets.

Glhf/FtH.

4 Likes

There’s one very simple way to fix bracket progression, reduce the number of brackets to something like a dozen. Top bracket(s) still contain 10 guilds, brackets further down get progressively larger, the bracket at the bottom contains all remaining guilds. Within a bracket, the top performers move up, the bottom performers move down, both based on the size of the bracket (so in a bracket containing 500 guilds several dozen would get moved around at the end of GW week). Takes just a couple of GW for the dead guilds to get shuffled to the bottom and the competitive ones to rise to the top. It’s a reward neutral change, the current rewards would just get reassigned to the new bracket structure.

well, maybe a mix of this should happen ?

brackets 1-10 stay as they are

brackets 11-100 are ordered by their score and assigned to new brackets based on their score
brackets 100+ can be all ordered in same manner as 11-100.

last 2 spots from B10, will go to B11, top2 teams from B11 will go to B10.
same for B100 and B101.

Scores only compare within a bracket. A guild scoring 1.000.000 in bracket 11 is playing far better than a guild scoring 1.200.000 in bracket 100. You proposed approach would shuffle all strong guilds down several dozen brackets.

1 Like

we can brake that B11-B100, into 10 separate windows:
B11-B20, B21-B30, etc.

it will speed up 2 things:
new endgamers guild to climb up
old dead-guild to fall behind

i guess, that after just a few (3 maybe 4) of such GWss most of guilds will be shuffled where they should and wont move much between brackets… or there will be some cycles -> guild will move between 2-3 brackets in a loop (like it’s currently, when guild is too strong for one bracket, but to weak for another one)

Which still would be punishing the stronger guilds by moving them down several brackets. GW scores are based on the opposition you are facing, the better your opponent, the lower the score you get. A B11 score of 1.000.000 is worth more than a B12 score of 1.000.000, is worth much more than a B20 score of 1.000.000.

1st run of this new algoritm might be punishing for those fighting in harder bracket, but after that - you’re fighting guilds that had similiar score…
I mean, how many of guilds in B100 score 1mln points? or even 700k…
Stronger guilds would advance or stay in their bracket… those who would be moved back, would be weaker ones.

That was how the devs originally planned guild wars, and it was changed literally last minute because the players hated the idea that much.

If you search, you’d even find the angry rants against your suggestion from years ago :rofl:

Well, I did ask why it hadn’t been done and the answer is relatively clear. No one can agree on a solution. And any solution proposed is going to be uber complex based on what I’ve read of the replies so far.

Which is fine but the current system leaves much to be desired.

Any new system, the way I laid it out or the way others have, will all have 1-3 or so weeks of flux. That’s to be expected. And hate. There will always be people who hate it, doesn’t matter what it is.

The scoring I can see is an issue if based on the existing scoring method so that wouldn’t work.

However, as someone mentioned its taking them a long time to work up the ladder where perhaps the ladder just needs to be culled? Remove the 0 points guilds, if they want to re-register at a later date fine, but if no one is paying, why are they there.

Why I even posted this is because I almost didn’t bother with the last guild war, I certainly didn’t spend any resources on it. But if we were actually fighting guilds of an equivalent level/participation maybe it would be more interesting. Maybe. Fighting 5 L&D teams in a row certainly isn’t.

3 Likes

Nobody wants to fight guilds of similar score, it’s all about fighting guilds of similar strength. Just watch the next soccer world championship, you won’t see any amateur soccer club getting lined up just because they scored 100 goals against an opponent that didn’t even attend.

And you would not… after just 2-3 runs, those weaker guilds would be knocked out to lower brackets and would fight those of simliar strength.

GW1 -> they score high becuase of lame enemies
GW2 -> they get their butts kicked by much stronger guild who scored similiar
GW3 -> they are surrounded by guilds of similiar strength and if not, they probably wont score that much points to put them again vs teams they met in GW2

as for strong guilds:
GW1 -> they fall down bacause they were outperformed by their bracket
GW2 -> they slaugther everything in their bracket and get back to higher tier
GW3 -> they might fall down a bracket or two, but not more if they get outperformed or they will be surrounded by guilds of similiar strength

A new Guild, even Maxing all tasks weekly, would still take time to get the 50% Color Bonus for those type of scores.

Also, fighting lvl 20 players with 3 troop defenses (Hero, Baby Dragon, Goblin) in dead guild after dead guild might get you the speed bonus, but not a decent dmg/mana generated bonus. Anybody using Thief class that wiped a team just by making a four match knows what I’m talking about.

Still, I get your meaning: OP is wrong. I agree. Other threads have proposed better solutions, and those were also ignored. I’m sorry, ‘passed along, under consideration, deemed not feasible’. One of those 3.

Not always, but I get your meaning as well.

I’ve seen big leaps, but never into top 10 Brackets. Was this on Switch?

Your Guild deserves to move up more than the standard “1 Bracket for a 2nd Place finish”. Not only did you crush the 3rd place finisher, but also, that Guild name is friggin amazing. Well played. Better luck in bracket seedings.

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It does seem like we’ll move up 3 (I think? 722 - 29 = 693, = B70) Brackets, pending re-registrations, but after such a long slog, with much more slogging ahead, it doesn’t feel like it means a whole lot – especially considering the results of the Brackets above and below:

As you (@ Chunky) have noted many times in your guild’s past, we’re still in the ‘lone Bracket-jumpers amidst a sea of lower scores’ territory. My thanks, regardless!

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It’s odd to suggest that 1.4 million in bracket 300 is equivalent to 1.4 million in bracket 1.

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but its definately closer to 1milion in B10, than 100k in B72…

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