Guild "agreement" in bracket1 to arrange scores

[Maxx]

@Saltypatra

We have said that from here on out we will be punishing guilds accordingly, we have come out with a strong stance. In the meantime we are working on ways to discourage this behaviour in the future through changes to GWs. These fixes will be more effective long term solution than only punishing guilds when they are found colluding.

As we had not had a strong opinion in the past we didn’t feel it appropriate to punish the guilds found doing so this time. It would go against what we said previously. Now we have come out with a much firmer policy that will be enforced.

Did people miss this?

Colluding is against the rules now and guilds caught doing it will be punished. When these two guilds did it it wasn’t against the rules so they can’t really be punished. What more do people want?

[Lyya]

Blood, it seems.

Blood for the blood god!

[Delinquent]

@MrRee

It’s time for you all to step up and do what’s right, not what’s easiest.

@Maxx

Colluding is against the rules now and guilds caught doing it will be punished. When these two guilds did it it wasn’t against the rules so they can’t really be punished. What more do people want?

Seriously?! How is what they are doing not what’s right? Reason has left the building.

[Eika]

Ketchup for the hotdog addict you mean?

[Razzagor]

@Delinquent

This is totally absurd. In no just system, anywhere, ever, can you punish people for doing something that isn’t against the rules.

Then, it is just a matter of time before people find a way to exploit the game in detritment of others again. As there is no sanction to be applied simply because they, the devs, don’t take responsability for reported cases unless the proverbial “ hits the fan.”

@Delinquent

You’re literally asking for a totalitarian state where people can be punished for doing things that the dev team arbitrarily decides it doesn’t like, as it likes. I don’t see how any reasonable human being can think that it’s okay for them to punish people based on a rule that was created after the fact. NO THANK YOU.

No… You are taking things to a level of absurdity, we are discussing a game and/or company conduct over an event where some guild’s actions hurt other players in the process… Even if the law wasn’t present, but damage was done, then it seems fit that some justice is applied.

Now, if you don’t agree please do it in a civil manner without twisting the discussion.

[Vangor]

@Eika

Ketchup for the hotdog addict you mean?

Who puts ketchup on hotdogs???

[MrRee]

I very rarely comment here. When I do, no bushes are beat around. That’s how it reads to me. Politician-style dishonesty.

[Eika]

All except of Vangor?

[Vangor]

@Eika

All except of Vangor?

Not to derail this thread so i will cimment no further after this…

In Chicago it is considered a mortal sin to put ketchup on a hotdog

[Eika]

I feel for you guys! Heinz, the one and only!

[Vangor]

@MrRee

I very rarely comment here. When I do, no bushes are beat around. That’s how it reads to me. Politician-style dishonesty

Fair enough

[Delinquent]

@Ivar

@Delinquent

You’re literally asking for a totalitarian state where people can be punished for doing things that the dev team arbitrarily decides it doesn’t like, as it likes. I don’t see how any reasonable human being can think that it’s okay for them to punish people based on a rule that was created after the fact. NO THANK YOU.

No… You are taking things to a level of absurdity, we are discussing a game and/or company conduct over an event where some guild’s actions hurt other players in the process… Even if the law wasn’t present, but damage was done, then it seems fit that some justice is applied.

Now, if you don’t agree please do it in a civil manner without twisting the discussion.

I’m really not. In very simply terms, here’s what I’m hearing:

1. These players should be punished for doing something we disagree with even though it wasn’t against the rules.
2. In all future cases, we have every right to demand players be punished for doing something we disagree with regardless of the rules.

This is literally totalitarianism. You absolutely CANNOT punish people for doing something that is not illegal. Ever. Period.

The ONLY appropriate resolution is for them to say it is now illegal and to punish people who break the now-illegal rule moving forward.

[Vangor]

@Delinquent

This is literally totalitarianism. You absolutely CANNOT punish people for doing something that is not illegal. Ever. Period.

The ONLY appropriate resolution is for them to say it is now illegal and to punish people who break the now-illegal rule moving forward

All excellent points and i would ageee if not for the stance taken by the devs months ago that collusion was a “violation of the spirit of GW” it was pretty clear to me thatit wasnt something that the devs wanted anyone to do. Whether they explicitly made a rule against it is IMO irrelevant

[Jainus]

I think you now go to far, and this is unfair and unhelpful - and frankly rude to @Saltypatra who is just doing her job.

In my view, the devs made mistakes in:

• not taking a firm obvious unambiguous and hostile stand against this the first time it was suggested
• not responding quickly enough on this thread with their actions or views

That said, these are now addressed.

I have mixed view on punitive action - as something might feel just… but logically there’s neither strong enough granular evidence here, nor a clear cut case of what was actually against any set rules… I have to agree with @Delinquent and others, the devs can’t punish people now for what wasn’t strictly a crime when they did it… and in all seriousness, we’re talking about possible collusion to manipulate a few free loot rewards in a game… it’s hardly murder…

[Vangor]

@Jainus

we’re talking about possible collusion to manipulate a few free loot rewards in a game… it’s hardly murder

I think we can leave the “possible” out at this point and while true it isnt murder nobody is asking for the death penelty here. I would also add that while also true this is in fact only a game it is a game we all have invested a lot of time and energy and in some cases money into so IMHO it is perfectly understandable ppl are upset

[Delinquent]

No one is arguing that you shouldn’t be upset. We’re arguing that it’s be resolved as best as anyone can reasonable hope for and it’s time to move on.

[Vangor]

@Delinquent

it’s time to move on

I am out of likes but this is probably best at this point

[Hoop]

Also, it is only a game. So how would taking away something from them in the game be wrong? That’s how I see it. It’s not like we want someone to go to jail for cheating in a game, just penalized in the game they cheated.

[Shimrra]

@Jainus

In my view, the devs made mistakes in:

• not taking a firm obvious unambiguous and hostile stand against this the first time it was suggested
• not responding quickly enough on this thread with their actions or views

That said, these are now addressed.

I mostly agree with Jainus as per usual.

I’ve reluctantly had my eye on this thread for a while now. The general public needs to accept that the devs have their hands tied and can’t do a lot retroactively in this scenario. The devs… seriously, make an actual announcement about this or something. A post or two on your new official stance, buried in this thread, isn’t good enough.

As for the guilds’ members willingly participating in this shameful business… you’re jerks, honestly. Being on top already wasn’t good enough?

[Razzagor]

Manipulation or misuse of other’s good faith (devs), in order to obtain personnal gain while they hurt others, in this case competitors for the brackets… Seems like enough legal ground for action.

But then, the only measure of justice to be applied is a stern lecture.

@Delinquent

We’re arguing that it’s be resolved as best as anyone can reasonable hope for and it’s time to move on.

If you feel it’s fine, then by all means you can go.
But we hardly saw half the forum’s opinions in this matter and as long as the discussion is healthy and civil the thread should remain open.